Pioneer Phono Stage Opinions

poorman

Well-Known Member
I finally decided to get into some vinyl, and recently bought a nice vintage Denon TT. Now I'm wondering which of my Pioneer receivers/amps it might pair with best. I'm going to audition it in a couple different systems, but in the meantime I'm curious if you have any opinions about the relative merits of the phono stages in the following:

SX-950
SA-9100/SA-8100
SX-1000TW

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.

poorman
 
Which ones have new caps and transistors? That will make more difference than the original design at this point.

if both are restored completely (sa-9100 vs sx-950) the 9100 MIGHT have a slight edge.
 
Yes, sir. Both the 9100 and the 950 have been extensively refurbished by my tech. Thanks for your feedback.
 
At one time or another I have owned just about all of the SX series of receivers except the SX-1980. It is still my opinion that my SX-1010's are the best sounding of em' all, including the phono stage.:yes: My SX-1250's phono stage does not compete with the SX-1010's but I gotta love it anyway. My SX-828, SX-737 and SX-650 would probably offer the most entertaining phono stage of my under 60WPC units IMHO:music:
 
What cartridge is in the Denon. Different brand cartridges will sound different on the same gear. Some sound dark, some bright, some dull, some lively. Also compliance matching to the tonearm mass is a good idea.

Agree with Mikeymax on the 1010. Actually any of the x3x series sound very good on phono. My 790 is ok, but I feel it compresses the mids and highs.

The 1000TW will give you a more tubelike sound than the other two. Try all of them.
 
At one time or another I have owned just about all of the SX series of receivers except the SX-1980. It is still my opinion that my SX-1010's are the best sounding of em' all, including the phono stage
I am surprised,
I have heard another say he likes the sound of the sx-950 over the sx-1250.
Yet another, saying 1280 sounds better than 1250.
It is puzzling when you look at the actual ckt designs and try to reason what is it in those particular circuits that make these differences?
I can LTspice them, recreate them, test them, compare them, but it is these listen tests that are the most puzzling. :smoke:
 
The restored condition of each of these is unknown, so it CANNOT serve as anything other than an anecdotal comparison.

Quite frankly, the phono preamp that depends the LEAST on electrolytic capacitors for it's performance is the one likely to sound the best over time.

The best for longevity would be ones that can get by without electrolytics of any type.

You want to put numbers on a SUBJECTIVE experience. Noise floor and distortion can give some indication of DEFICIENCIES, but they do NOT account for the rest of the chain - which includes the rest of the preamp, the power amp, the speakers, their placement and the room, the source maerial and how IT was recorded, the listeners ears and the TRAINING and refinement of the ear-mind interface of THAT particular listener AT THAT PARTICULAR TIME IN THEIR LISTENING CAREER... Stuff that USED to sound fine, can sound like garbage years later. And I am NOT talking hearing loss, age OR abuse related...


Plus the KIND of the distortion can affect the perception of the material. Second harmonic distortion can get pretty bad and still escape notice by some, while third harmonic distortion will be instantly detected.
 
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anecdotal comparison.
Yup, have to agree 100% with you

Quite frankly, the phono preamp that depends the LEAST on electrolytic capacitors for it's performance is the one likely to sound the best over time.
Based on that statement, then the phono ckts in the Pioneer A-90 are at the top of the heap, as it employs a DC servo to rid of any AC coupling caps in the signal path.
 
OVER TIME, :dammit: the original design is still subject to itself.

I'm DONE debating this.
 
MTF -- WTF?

You've sucked all the fun out of my original post.

I don't come to AK for a scientific exposition. I come here to read other enthusiasts' obviously-subjective opinions about 30 year old gear, and frankly, I'm bugged by your condescension.

Moderators, feel free to delete this thread. If I've violated AK guidelines with this reply, I apologize.

poorman
 
Sorry about that, really - I just should have seen and thought a bit harder on the word opinions in the title, realized this thread didn't need my input and just plain steered clear.

I was off base, off thread, and I apologize, to EVERYBODY in this thread.

edit - I also shouldn't have let myself get irritated by rcs16. Just because a particular phono preamp has been recapped back to it's original performance doesn't mean that it's performance is now spectacular, just back to original. There is still the circuit and it's signal handling/passage characteristics.
 
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Off base!!

Comical, how I agree with someone and receive a juvenile response.
I was just going to ignore this thread altogether, as it got de-railed but since you chimmed in, I thought that I'd get it off my chest as well.
Thanks "poorman" for standing up to this nonsense.
Knowledge is what we should all seek, not attitude.
Hopefully we are all adults here and can conduct ourselves in such a manner.

Now that we/I have cleared the air, I would be glad to continue if there is anything left to discuss WRT Pioneer or any other phono pre-amp design/performance discussions.
 
Hello everyone, this is my first post. I have a pioneer qx4000 the phono section is not working in it. Does anyone know
Which board controls the phono? When I turn to phono all I get is loud static.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards Jerry
 
Hello everyone, this is my first post. I have a pioneer qx4000 the phono section is not working in it. Does anyone know
Which board controls the phono? When I turn to phono all I get is loud static.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Regards Jerry

Hello iceman57ad and welcome to Ak.
For others to help serve you better you need to start your own post. This way you will have a more Taylored response to your issue.
We certainly don't want to derail poormans thread any further. I'm sure he'll agree too.
Cheers :thumbsup:
 
I don't know how much it matters, but my SX-1250 does not have any trimmers for the phono inputs, where my SA-9900 has impedance matching and voltage-matching (IIRC) switches for one of the phono inputs.

I'm not very vinyl-savvy, so I don't know whether this has any significant impact in today's cartridges.
 
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