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Pioneer PL-707 or Sony PS-X600 which would you choose?

Discussion in 'Turntables' started by Mr.Jim, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Mr.Jim

    Mr.Jim President of nothing Subscriber

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Summerville, South Carolina
    Looking for a second table and am possibly zeroing in on these two. Both excellent condition, both the same price. Is one notably better than the other? Cartridge is no issue, as I will get a new one, both come with usable " good for now cartridges".
     

     

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  2. Dadbeh

    Dadbeh Active Member

    Messages:
    408
    May I ask the price for buy future reference?
     
  3. Mr.Jim

    Mr.Jim President of nothing Subscriber

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Summerville, South Carolina
    $300
     
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  4. Dadbeh

    Dadbeh Active Member

    Messages:
    408
    Thanks.I don't know anything about turntable and I'm just researching buying my first but in have heard good things about 707
     
  5. Mr.Jim

    Mr.Jim President of nothing Subscriber

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Summerville, South Carolina
    Anyone?
     
  6. patient_ot

    patient_ot Active Member

    Messages:
    490
    Location:
    USA
    Are you buying these in person or trying to by them online? Did you look up specs on vinylengine and compare them yet?
     

     

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  7. Mr.Jim

    Mr.Jim President of nothing Subscriber

    Messages:
    587
    Location:
    Summerville, South Carolina
    Pioneer rumble -80db wow and flutter .025
    Sony -78db .015
     
  8. White_wolf

    White_wolf Active Member

    Messages:
    269
    Location:
    Alamogordo, NM
    Can't speak for the Sony, but that Pioneer is a very good table, don't let that 0.015 vs 0.025 difference make you think that it is bad at keeping speed. I can tell you that the speed is rock solid steady on it, at least on mine it is. $300 is a pretty good price for one too.
     
  9. gary7

    gary7 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    Had a PS-X500. Semi man with excellent biotracer arm. Loved it. X600 is full auto. Excellent table.
     
  10. Dadbeh

    Dadbeh Active Member

    Messages:
    408
    im a little confused, when they say that it needs the needle replaced, does that mean the stylus? if i buy a cartridge and a stylus does it come with a needle? this is already overwhelming. the TT that i bought comes with the caveat that the needle needs to be replced. i am buying an ortofon OM10 with stylus. so does that take care of the needle issue or not?
     
  11. gary7

    gary7 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,842
    Location:
    Huntsville, AL
    The stylus is the "needle". It is the part that makes contact with the record groove.
     
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  12. tubed

    tubed Lunatic Member

    Messages:
    15,550
    Location:
    Aztlan
    My Sony PS-X600 is a clean machine.
     
  13. Dadbeh

    Dadbeh Active Member

    Messages:
    408
  14. Dadbeh

    Dadbeh Active Member

    Messages:
    408
    Bought a 707 with dust cover and everything.
     
  15. ETI_5000

    ETI_5000 Super Member

    Messages:
    2,844
    Location:
    Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
    The major difference between the Pioneer and the Sony is the much better tonearm on the Sony, due to the fact it’s a Biotracer. That damps the low frequency resonance almost completely, and removes one of the major causes of mistracking and distortion, as well as allowing any cartridge to be a good match with the arm, since effective mass is no longer an issue (the effective mass electronically becomes virtually zero, as any undue tonearm movement is resisted by the Biotracer motors). You can see how good they are on warped or off-centre records, where conventional tonearms have a lot of stylus cantilever movement, while with the Biotracer tonearms, the cantilevers don’t move, despite the tonearm moving up and down or from side to side!

    So you get an excellent turntable, with one of the greatest tonearms ever made (the other contenders are all electronic – either Sony Biotracer, JVC Electro-Dynamic Servo, or Denon Dynamic Servo Tracer tonearms, with conventional tonearms of any brand a long way behind in tracking, distortion and resistance to external vibration).

    You’re comparing apples with oranges with those wow and flutter figures – the Sony figure of 0.015% for wow and flutter is measured directly from the platter rim via its speed monitoring head, without playing a record. The actual figure when measured using a test record is 0.025% WRMS, the same as the Pioneer.

    Here are the comparable figures for wow and flutter, measured to the same standards using similar methods:

    Pioneer 0.012% WRMS (measured at motor), Sony 0.015% WRMS (measured at the head monitoring the platter rim speed) – Pioneer better
    Pioneer 0.025% WRMS, Sony 0.025% WRMS (both measured using a test record) – both the same
    Pioneer ±0.035% Weighted peak (DIN), Sony ±0.03% (DIN) – Sony better

    So with some of the manufacturer wow and flutter figures (WRMS measured directly at motor or platter edge), the Pioneer is better, with others (WRMS measured using a test record) they’re both the same, and using the third standard (DIN), the Sony is better! Who knows which is better? That’s the difficulty in comparing figures from one manufacturer with another. They’re fairly similar, is all we can say!

    It’s the same with the signal to noise ratio figures – for all we know, the Sony figure could have been taken in a noisy lab in a large city, close to traffic and train noise, while the Pioneer figure could have been taken at a secret testing lab deep in the quiet country, and early in the morning (some manufacturers did used to measure their turntables at those types of facilities, to minimise external factors influencing the results, while others would measure them at certain quiet times of the day or night, for similar reasons).

    So while it’s certainly possible to compare Pioneer figures with other Pioneer turntables, and Sony turntables with other Sony turntables, comparing the two manufacturers’ figures is fraught with danger, unless they’re from the same lab, with the same measuring equipment and methods.

    Other specifications which are worth comparing (and less dependent on measuring techniques or environments) are the turntable weights, which influence acoustic feedback (one of the main influences on how turntables sound), since a heavier turntable requires more energy to vibrate the same amount. The Sony is slightly heavier (8.5kg versus 8.1kg), and also has the benefit of their excellent, very non-resonant SBMC (Sony Bulk Moulding Compound) material for the base, which is a mixture of calcium carbonate (limestone), fibreglass and polyester.
     
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  16. Beobloke

    Beobloke Super Member

    Messages:
    1,774
    Location:
    South UK
    Both are fine decks, but I'personally go with the Pioneer. The arm on this is no slouch at all and, although the Sony is a Biotracer, it's not in the same league as the earlier models like the PS-B80.

    And, anyway, look at the model numbers - basic maths tells you the Pioneer is 107 better than the Sony... :D
     
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