Pioneer SX-1250 vs Sansui 9090

Rotnub

New Member
Greetings! I just joined the forum! I don't have many answers, just a few questions now and then. Like this one...

Some months back, I drove all the way from Toronto to Quebec to pick up a Sansui 9090 that was languishing in a basement. When I got it home, I spent a week listening to it driving Cerwin Vega VS-120's, and was impressed by the clear, powerful sound. Then I took it apart, as much as I dared, and gave it a thorough dusting, wiping, etc.

What I want to say is that I wasn't nearly as impressed by its build quality as by its sound quality. Yes, it was heavy, but I didn't care for the way it was constructed. That and several rust spots inside where some jerkoff had splashed a drink (or sneezed torrentially) through the grille convinced me to sell the 9090. (A really friendly guy in Italy bought it, which was the start of a major shipping headache!)

I then bought an SX-1250 that was supposed to be in "near MINT" condition but that had sonic issues (buzzing & underpowered); I soon added an SX-950 to my collection. Trouble was, neither of these receivers sounded as good as the 9090 had. Granted, the SX-1250 needs a tune-up, maybe even a new cap (I bought four caps on ebay, just in case).

So my question is this:
Is it possible that an SX-1250 just doesn't sound as good as a 9090, thanks to Sansui's renowned transformers and circuits, even if the 1250's build quality is superior? Doesn't the 1250's superlative design, with that beefy toroidal transformer and juicy coke-can caps, make it the hands-down winner?!

I've read plenty of reviews about both receivers. I know that some people swear by the 9090, others by the the SX-1250.

I would really like to believe that my gorgeous 1250 is as good as it gets, but I can't forget the sonic nirvanah I enjoyed for a short while with the 9090. In fact, neither the 1250 nor the 950 sound as clean as my 880, which I've had for a long time. (The 950 is currently driving a pair of Pioneer Elite TZ-9's, but I want to hook up the 1250 to them, of course!) Could somebody give me an objective answer, please?

Thanks, guys!
 
Rotnub said:
Greetings! I just joined the forum! I don't have many answers, just a few questions now and then. Like this one...

Some months back, I drove all the way from Toronto to Quebec to pick up a Sansui 9090 that was languishing in a basement. When I got it home, I spent a week listening to it driving Cerwin Vega VS-120's, and was impressed by the clear, powerful sound. Then I took it apart, as much as I dared, and gave it a thorough dusting, wiping, etc.

What I want to say is that I wasn't nearly as impressed by its build quality as by its sound quality. Yes, it was heavy, but I didn't care for the way it was constructed. That and several rust spots inside where some jerkoff had splashed a drink (or sneezed torrentially) through the grille convinced me to sell the 9090. (A really friendly guy in Italy bought it, which was the start of a major shipping headache!)

I then bought an SX-1250 that was supposed to be in "near MINT" condition but that had sonic issues (buzzing & underpowered); I soon added an SX-950 to my collection. Trouble was, neither of these receivers sounded as good as the 9090 had. Granted, the SX-1250 needs a tune-up, maybe even a new cap (I bought four caps on ebay, just in case).

So my question is this:
Is it possible that an SX-1250 just doesn't sound as good as a 9090, thanks to Sansui's renowned transformers and circuits, even if the 1250's build quality is superior? Doesn't the 1250's superlative design, with that beefy toroidal transformer and juicy coke-can caps, make it the hands-down winner?!

I've read plenty of reviews about both receivers. I know that some people swear by the 9090, others by the the SX-1250.

I would really like to believe that my gorgeous 1250 is as good as it gets, but I can't forget the sonic nirvanah I enjoyed for a short while with the 9090. In fact, neither the 1250 nor the 950 sound as clean as my 880, which I've had for a long time. (The 950 is currently driving a pair of Pioneer Elite TZ-9's, but I want to hook up the 1250 to them, of course!) Could somebody give me an objective answer, please?

Thanks, guys!

Since I own both a 9090DB and an SX-1250 (and SX-1280) I feel qualified to comment.

The 9090DB has a very impressive sound because certain parts of it are "boosted". It is very much "up front" and, at first, is REALLY IMPRESSIVE, especially for something so old. But, it does not reproduce sound as ACCURATELY as the Pioneer SX-1250.

For Rock.....the 9090 is OUTSTANDING, however, if you listen to classical music on it, you might find it fatiguing to listen to after awhile.

However, you can listen to classical music all day long on the SX-1250 at full volume without any fatigue at all. The power supply of the SX-1250 is "top notch".

I would definately take your SX-1250 in for a "tune up" so you can really appreciate what you have. It will be money well spent.
 
The 1250 is slightly more powerful, that would be the only thing that would sway me to that instead of the 9090DB. I am biased though and happen to love Sansui equipment, have a hot-rodded AU-717 on the way.

I used to think that you could buy an amp just from reading a review but with speakers, you have to listen and compare on your own, then choose, because what sounds good to someone else may not be the sound you want.

Well that's true with amps as well, if to a lesser degree. You don't have that much of a quandary since you have BOTH receivers....this isn't a bad problem to have....they are both great receivers.
 
Thanks for the making a case for the sx-1250!

Thanks for your replies! I'll get the 1250 tuned up by my local guy. I just worry that "she" might come back in worse shape cosmetically (scratches on wood, nicks on the face), even if better electronically. Maybe I could put some protective covering over sensitive areas, or put the fear of Gawd into the fixit guy if he should damage my prrrrecious! Tell him I'm a gangsta... :smoke:
Thanks again!
 
I've owned many Sansui, Pioneer and it seems at the same power capability the Sansui sound is always better. I love the way Pioneer looks better but I do not like its sound as much as Sansui. You may be surprised/disappointed when you find out after the tune-up the Pioneer sound is still not as good. This is probably because your ears (or mine) match the Sansui more. Sound is not objective as you or others may think. It is very much like look, very subjective!
 
My 2 cents

I own both and have done some serious listening to them.Although I like the pretty lights of the Sansui 9090db,Its very cool looking.The sx-1250 is a cut above in sound.IMHO The Sansui has a slightly muddy sound to it,for lack of a better term.The big pioneer is clean and is not the least bit tiring to listen too where ever the vol is.Both are excellent in build Qualty. Get the 1250 tuned up and then do a comparison,either way you will be happy.
 
Rotnub said:
Thanks for your replies! I'll get the 1250 tuned up by my local guy. I just worry that "she" might come back in worse shape cosmetically (scratches on wood, nicks on the face), even if better electronically. Maybe I could put some protective covering over sensitive areas, or put the fear of Gawd into the fixit guy if he should damage my prrrrecious! Tell him I'm a gangsta... :smoke:
Thanks again!

When I drop stuff of at my Tech's, I take the cabinets off first. That where there can be no scratches to the wood.
 
Im really puzzled over the sansui, pioneer, marantz deal. I have owned all 3, big and small.i have owned other make pre and power amps, ect,.im sure most of us have. But the sansui deal, I just do not get. I just had and sold a big 8080db sansui. It had been gone over, a few things done, the dolby section checked, re soldered.it looked impressive, and did have an outstanding tuner stage. Thats it. Its phono stage was just flat.did not care for that dry sound.no real bottom.my pioneer sa 9500 mk.2 just killed it.not even close.the pioneer, albiet slightly bright, but had everything else. Great bass, full even mids.but my fave, again, above all else, Marantz. My ref being a 1150d.its phono stage out performs even most outbord phono pre amps(I own a couple of decent, top rated units)yes, the big Pioneer is a better sounding receiver, the 1250 being one of the best.incredible tight bass.i judge by my ears, and the gear I listen to, ,( i listen to vinyl on 3 decks)must be in good nic before I judge.i owned that sansui for 2 weeks, it was in good condition, caps ect,.....i always wanted a big sansui.oh well.
 
The 9090 is more closer to the 1050 than the 1250.

The 1250 has a build quality that is incredible. Can't go wrong with a properly running 1250.
 
I do not think you'll find many Sansui or Marantz units that have the same build quality of the sx-x50 series.
objective answers are all over the place = good luck with that!

1150D phono design? nothing special about that design, it is as simple as it gets.
Now take a look at the bigger bro, the 1300DC, it uses jfets as the input devices for the MM phono, pre-, tone and PA sections. I wonder if anyone has ever evaluate this model aginst a SX-1250 or 9090DB?

One thing to note, Sansui believed in using NEC dual jfets as the input stages, for phono and PA sections,even for lower end units. I can see Marantz used them only in the high end integrated and separates. Many designers prefer this device as it has benefits, some are RFI interference related others are sonic, many options and opinions, many differ.
 
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Its just what I have come to prefer.yes it may not have the more complex and newer phono stage(marantz got it right,.. simple?its how it is designed,net results), but its all about what does it REALLY sound like, not what it "reads"like.You are also comparing an amp that is very scarce, and expensive.with that cost, i can easily put together a piece that will be better .like I said, l have other gear, come and gone.nothing has that overal , fat , thick, smooth, ear pleasing sound, IN THE SAME arena as far as vintage status,, resale cost,rms power,. I have other Marantz gear.i recently heard the Pioneer SPEC combo, a highly regarged pre and p.amp..just sold my sa 9500 mk.2.was not getting used..its just the "nothing special" 1150d sounds superior. ? It cannot compete with bigger power, but sure has enough.Not bright, silky smooth, great defined bass.Maybe because it
has a much better damping rate than the Sansui's(I do believe that is very important). I was expecting a lot more.i think the late 60s,very early 70s sansui, to me sound superb.i preferred my old SX.838..it also has do with what speakers you listen to . And as far as build quality between the makes?.ask a REAL VINTAGE TECH ON WHAT HE THINKS, someone who works on this gear, everyday..those big Marantz DC series intregated(not the PM) sound fine, to my ear, a little bright..they are excellent..hey, other Marantz guys ive chatted with, they get it. Have you not come upon gear that, that surprised you, or really let you down?like finding an old empire rm50 cart, thinking it cheap, and being blown away.i have heard mega buck systems, where i had to bite my lip, and lie, not to offend.Well, today I get to view,of all things ,an sx1250, and 3 way
Speakerlabs that a friend has, we did not know that we shared the hobby..should be a treat.
 
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No link omri,

I guess I have to have both a 1250 and a 9090 in front of me to see if I can hear any difference in sound quality and look inside a 9090 and to see if it would be any easier to fix.

My main stereo is of late, is a class "D based amp, that I designed, using a TI TPA3100D2 chip, it sounds great for a low power amp.
Speakers make the most difference in any stereo system, even in a $20 class "D" amp with Dynaudio gemini's or my modified Altec Lansing 3's that I got for $10.00 at a yard sale.
I'll look up and out for that "empire rm50 cart" and possible try it out on one of my 598 Troubadors, if I can find one.Oh ya they are selling them on ebay, I'll look up the specs.

@
 
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Sorry to blab so much, but visited my friend's this afternoon, with the 1250.all original, used almost every week of the year(s).needs a cleaning, otherwise, excellent.wood case is scratch free. Played through odd Speakerlab,3 way, horns and healthy 12"woofer.i kinda forgot how much grunt these things have.smooth, punchy as all hell.ya, this through questionable designed speakers.pure bliss.not even close performance , over the 8080db.the Sansui is rated at 85 pc.the power vu meters move,but wheres the beef? My 1150d seemed to have 50 wpc over it.its rated at 75.,the big Pioneer has superb bottem end.160 wpc.id say conservative.my friend then says time has come to let it go, and would I be interested in buying it!I was not thinking of buying,before going over, just wanted to hear it, and mentioned my sad Sansui.hell, at 22 plus inches wide, it wont fit in my rack.then he threw a price I could not refuse.looks like this thread has led to a fantastic score.it will,be a keeper.eventually getting a re cap,($yikes!).good luck with you choice.
 
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Looked over the 9090(DB) schematic again, to re-fresh my memory, uses a lot of old Rohm BA312 amplifiers, looked at the specs, well what can I say = mediocre, I would prefer it a NE5534 opamp. It was not till the 80's that the Japanese figured out the value of a NE5534, I think Sanasui used them in a few AU-xxxx models, I used them in my second pre-amp design,1980. I thought that the NE5534 design was of better sound quality to the SX-950 pre-amp section.
My 1150d seemed to have 50 wpc over it.its rated at 75.,
I wish I could understand why or what in the 1150d design makes you think this?

@bossmustang = lucky guy, I would grab the sx-1250 in a minute, it is one of the classics that any audio nut would love to have, including me. Maybe one day, in the mean time, I have taken a different route, acquired a couple of sx-1250 transformers to roll my own and to experiment with.

If there is enough interest, I might re-design some select pcb's in the 1250 to upgrade its performance, assuming that someone thinks that they need improvement on what Pioneer has done.
For example, improve the phono section, have both MC & MM cartridge capability, it does have 2 phono inputs. Take an existing phono design, like in the Sansui AU-X1, sx-1980, Marantz 1300DC and re-layout to fit in the same form factor as the sx-1250, using modern available parts.
I have lots of ideas and since I am retired, winter is on its way again I am am open to ideas.
 
I want to say something off the cuff but I will just keep my mouth shut. :D
 
At me?, for what I have said,? I can take it, send me a PM if you do not want to make it public.
 
Stumbled on this old thread.
I originally got back into "vintage" audio when I saw a buddy's 8080. He bought it new, never had it rebuilt/re-capped, etc. It looked really cool, but didn't sound great.
(Not fair to really say that as it was original). So I was on a quest.
Was seeking a 9090, found several, but didn't pull the trigger. Then I found a 1250 locally here in DFW. It was original as well, but sounded incredible. I pulled the trigger on it and had it completely rebuilt here locally by Frank Mufich at Mufich Audio.

He works on all kinds of receivers. Marantz, Pioneer, Sansui, etc....
I asked his opinion and he said by far the Pioneer rigs perform the best, are built the best, etc. My 1250 sounds awesome!!!! I sitll think the Sansui rigs look cool, but I'm really glad I grabbed the Pioneer!!
 
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