Pioneer SX-1980 versus Sansui G-22000 - My day of reckoning!

[w1jim]

Well since the world didn't end today I decided it's time to get on with it and discuss my findings on this oft pondered question - which is better, the Pioneer SX-1980 or the Sansui G-22000?

These two receivers are the centerpieces of my collection.
They have each been (almost) fully recapped - everything except for the big power supply caps. The electrolytics have been replaced with similar electrolytics excepting those of 1uf and below which have been replaced with poly film caps. Similarly, all tanatlum caps have been replaced with electrolytics excepting values of 1uf or less which have also been replaced with poly films.

Details on the SX-1980 rebuild can be reviewed here:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=350490&referrerid=41196

Details on the G-22000 can be found in these two threads:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=295624&referrerid=41196
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=368217&referrerid=41196

Here's a picture of my 2 monsters ready to go head-to-head along with an impartial observer. BTW, the dbx was left out of the system and all tone controls where disabled. Volumes levels where also matched to be the same.

...

 

[kevzep]

Well I think the Sansui has a better look.........

I will be watching to see what you think Jim...........

 

[w1jim]

How we going to do it...

To perform the comparison I'll be using the following gear:

Klipschorn Forte' speakers - recapped and the larger inductor replaced with a 14 gauge air core inductor. Tweeters upgraded with the Crites titanium domes.

NAD 515BEE CD Player - I've found this to be an excellent / affordable CDP.

Pioneer PL-L1000 turntable with a Shure M97xe cartridge.

For the switching duties I'm using my A-B switcher that I built earlier this year for my SX-850 recap/non-recap comparison:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=343405

 

[w1jim]

Let's compare some basic features of each:

Inputs
SX-1980 -

AM/FM/AUX
Phono 2 - one has adjustments for cartridge loading - 100/200/300/400 pf and 10/50/100kΩ​

G-22000 -

AM/FM/FM dolby/AUX
Phono 2 - one has 100/33/47 kΩ and the other has 100/47kΩ loading​

Tape
SX-1980 and G22000 - both have provisions for 2 tape decks and one adapter (EQ, dbx, etc)

Tone controls
SX-1980 -

Hi/Lo/Mono-stereo/Loudness/Mute
50 & 100hz / 10k & 20k​

G-22000 -

Hi/Lo/Mono-stereo/Loudness/Mute
Bass/Mid/Treble with switchable rollover frequencies - 200/400 & 2.5k/5k​

Tuner
The SX-1980 has a quartz lock feature whereas the G-22000 has switchable wide/narrow for AM & FM and an FM noise filter

Miscellaneous
The SX-1980 has one microphone input and one headphone output. The G-22000 has one microphone and two headphone outputs.

Aesthetics
The Pioneer rates an 11, the Sansui also rates an 11 - you wouldn't be embarrassed to have either one in your fleet.
The Sansui is humongus, so much so that you may have a hard time finding a place to put it - sacrifices will need to be made and deals with the devil made in order to display it proudly.
The pioneer is also huge, at least you'll think so until you see the Sansui.
It's like being the biggest kid on your high school football team and then seeing the pros. It puts things into perspective!

So features-wise The Pioneer has some more flexibility on the phono end and I personally prefer the tone control ranges. On the other hand the Sansui has more adjustability in the tuner section and while it gives you more in the tone section I don't personally find it as usable (YMMV - duh).

 

[w1jim]

Listening results (the good stuff)

AUX / CD player
For the listening tests I did a fair amount of listening on my own and then had AKer Nate86 come over for some ear-time on the first (CD) portion of the test.
Basically we both agreed that the SX-1980 sounded ever-so-slightly more detailed in the higher octaves - stereo separation was a notch better then the Sansui. Not a lot but it was noticeable and preferable to our ears. The bass and mids were very similar. That being said the Sansui could be said to be smoother - a matter of taste.

Phono
The phono and tuner sections I did solo (so we can't hold Nate responsible :nono.
Since the switcher required that the phono cables be extended (not the preferred situation) I don't feel it is optimal for listening but adequate for comparison purposes. I set both phono inputs the same (47kΩ on the Sansui and 50kΩ on the Pioneer). I adjusted the capacitive loading on the Pioneer to what sounded best.
After the results with the CD I was fully expecting the Pioneer to outclass the Sansui.
Surprise - the Sansui was superior to the Pioneer in this area by a slightly wider margin then the Pioneer beat out the Sansui in the CD comparo. Hmm, things are starting to get interesting here (hear?). The Sansui was more detailed and seemed to have better separation. Bass and mids, very similar.

Tuner
First off, I didn't test the AM - for all I know it doesn't even work! There's a 50KW AM broadcast station about 1/4 mile from my house so that wreaks some havoc as would be expected.
For an FM antenna both receivers had some rabbit ears similarly positioned. I live 15 miles from downtown Boston and there are several FM transmitter sites about 3 miles from here. I listened to some local stations and to one up in New Hampshire (maybe 50 miles away).
Winner in the FM test - Sansui! I found it to be both more sensitive and better sounding. It was slightly - yet noticeably - more detailed and had better stereo separation. That combined with the additionally adjustability afforded by the wide/narrow switch and the FM noise filter gives the tuner "ribbon" to the Sansui.
Now - it should be recognized that neither receiver has been recently aligned. That would certainly change the individual performances - by how much and in whose favor would be a subject that would require some guess work. And as they say with these kind of comparisons - YMMV.

So the end result, I love the Pioneer SX-1980 and it is a big dog not to be underestimated - but alas the Sansui G-22000 is the top dog.
Additionally, due to it's rarity I feel the Sansui will hold it's value better - but then the Pioneer has a greater following so it's likely to be more salable to those not in the know (or with limited shelf real estate).
Now It's time to hire the piano movers to get it back up into the mancave.

JimB

 

[Fasterdamnit]

Bravo!!

Both monsters in in fresh condition and live A/B switching- Well done sir!

:thmbsp:

 

[alwaysjammin]

I hope that shelf is as strong as it looks

That's an awe inspiring pair to be sure:thmbsp:

 

[w1jim]

I've reinforced it but still, it's not as strong as I wish it was.
Fortunately the amp (and heavier) half of the Sansui is sitting atop the Klipschorn speaker, guarded by the feline influence.

 

[kevzep]

Awesome comparison Jim........I was fully expecting the Pioneer to nudge ahead in the phono department.......It has a lot more flexibility.....

I knew the Sansui tuner would nudge ahead.........
But at the end of the day? Not a lot in it you think?

 

[superdog]

Interesting although not surprised.I did a less scientific comparison awhile back with my 9090db and my brothers SX-1050.The Pioneer was no slouch but my ears preferred the Sansui.

 

[w1jim]

Interesting although not surprised.I did a less scientific comparison awhile back with my 9090db and my brothers SX-1050.The Pioneer was no slouch but my ears preferred the Sansui.

I love my 9090db, I used to have it in the same room as the SX-1250. Both different but wonderful.
Yeah, I'm doing just fine on gear .

 

[lr11]

Thanks for the review.

 

[Copa1934]

Listening results (the good stuff)

AUX / CD player
For the listening tests I did a fair amount of listening on my own and then had AKer Nate86 come over for some ear-time on the first (CD) portion of the test.
Basically we both agreed that the SX-1980 sounded ever-so-slightly more detailed in the higher octaves - stereo separation was a notch better then the Sansui. Not a lot but it was noticeable and preferable to our ears. The bass and mids were very similar. That being said the Sansui could be said to be smoother - a matter of taste.

Phono
The phono and tuner sections I did solo (so we can't hold Nate responsible :nono.
Since the switcher required that the phono cables be extended (not the preferred situation) I don't feel it is optimal for listening but adequate for comparison purposes. I set both phono inputs the same (47kΩ on the Sansui and 50kΩ on the Pioneer). I adjusted the capacitive loading on the Pioneer to what sounded best.
After the results with the CD I was fully expecting the Pioneer to outclass the Sansui.
Surprise - the Sansui was superior to the Pioneer in this area by a slightly wider margin then the Pioneer beat out the Sansui in the CD comparo. Hmm, things are starting to get interesting here (hear?). The Sansui was more detailed and seemed to have better separation. Bass and mids, very similar.

Tuner
First off, I didn't test the AM - for all I know it doesn't even work! There's a 50KW AM broadcast station about 1/4 mile from my house so that wreaks some havoc as would be expected.
For an FM antenna both receivers had some rabbit ears similarly positioned. I live 15 miles from downtown Boston and there are several FM transmitter sites about 3 miles from here. I listened to some local stations and to one up in New Hampshire (maybe 50 miles away).
Winner in the FM test - Sansui! I found it to be both more sensitive and better sounding. It was slightly - yet noticeably - more detailed and had better stereo separation. That combined with the additionally adjustability afforded by the wide/narrow switch and the FM noise filter gives the tuner "ribbon" to the Sansui.
Now - it should be recognized that neither receiver has been recently aligned. That would certainly change the individual performances - by how much and in whose favor would be a subject that would require some guess work. And as they say with these kind of comparisons - YMMV.

So the end result, I love the Pioneer SX-1980 and it is a big dog not to be underestimated - but alas the Sansui G-22000 is the top dog.
Additionally, due to it's rarity I feel the Sansui will hold it's value better - but then the Pioneer has a greater following so it's likely to be more salable to those not in the know (or with limited shelf real estate).
Now It's time to hire the piano movers to get it back up into the mancave.

JimB

Piano movers, that's a good one! My Fisher is very close in dimensions, and weighs in at 70+ pounds so I know where you're coming from. I've been doing something similar though not near the power of those bad boys. What I did different was wire from the tape out of one to the Aux IN on the other to "share" single devices. Works pretty bloody well, but not sure what kind of influences are taking place in the electronics (if any). Nice rig you have for A/Bing!

Nice simple review.

 

[HypnoToad]

Lucky no one got an ear bitten off during this heavy weight bout!

 

[ManyMoonsAudio]

I was kinda surprised that the Pioneer didn't win in the phono dept. also...

 

[w1jim]

I was kinda surprised that the Pioneer didn't win in the phono dept. also...

So was I - I guess the YMMV disclaimer persists.

Not that the SX-1980 sucked but next time I'm in there I'll replace the transistors in the phone equalizer PCB.

 

[Axcel]

Well I think the Sansui has a better look.........

I will be watching to see what you think Jim...........

:nono: Pioneer imho

 

[plinya77]

Enjoyed the review. Today I listened to my new 9090db and my sons sx1080 head to head and preferred the 9090. But as pretty as the Sansui is, that Pioneer is gorgeous and my son would not trade.

 

[acdc7369]

Enjoyed the review. Today I listened to my new 9090db and my sons sx1080 head to head and preferred the 9090. But as pretty as the Sansui is, that Pioneer is gorgeous and my son would not trade.

Ah, another man with an SX-1080 paired with HPM-100s :thmbsp:

 

[w1jim]

Enjoyed the review. Today I listened to my new 9090db and my sons sx1080 head to head and preferred the 9090. But as pretty as the Sansui is, that Pioneer is gorgeous and my son would not trade.

Show's you've raised him well.

SX-1080 versus 9090db - you can't go wrong either way there. Now an SX-1050, that might have me in a quandary.