Power Conditioner Necessary?

Discussion in 'McIntosh Audio' started by drillher, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. NeedForSpeed

    NeedForSpeed Hands Off The Stereo Subscriber

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  2. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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    And I thank you kind Sir for your interest in this important subject, that`s often sadly overlooked, or misrepresented/misunderstood on the AUDIO interwebs IMHO/E

    Take care, OKB
     
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  3. NeedForSpeed

    NeedForSpeed Hands Off The Stereo Subscriber

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    I've seen $10,000 plus rigs plugged into a common outlet. Won't spend anything on stable protected current. :dunno:
     
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  4. Westy56

    Westy56 A symphony of paradox

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    You are right as far as my furmans are concerned. I re read the manual and it states that the unit will probably
    be damaged if a direct or very close strike occurs. It also states that the damage will probably be a minor fix.

    To the people who say a conditioner chokes the AC, some may, but not an ar-pro.
    It will deliver 30 amps of current off a 120 ACV input. That's 10 more amps than my dedicated circuit.
     
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  5. jwrosenthal

    jwrosenthal AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I have done the A/B into wall and into conditioner with my amps and although I don’t have specialized testing equipment, have never “heard” any difference...and this is with high efficiency soeakers (101db). Peace of mind far outweighs the 1% difference I may or may not hear.
     
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  6. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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  7. PabloX

    PabloX AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    How would it deliver more amps than the circuit has?
     
  8. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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    It`s rating, or head room, if you will, is over it`s input power`s amperage connection, so it will not starve(restrict) the main`s current draw passing through it for the equipment connected to it, and probably run cooler, because of less internal voltage drop..

    Pretty basic physics, if one stop`s & think`s about it..

    As you folk`s seem fit.

    Kind regards, OKB
     
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  9. Westy56

    Westy56 A symphony of paradox

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    Bill probably explained it as far as I can tell. I'm no electrical wizard by a longshot.
    The manual states that as long as the incoming ACV is between 120-146 ACV, it will deliver 30 amps of available current.
    Even at 80 incoming ACV it will deliver 20 amps.
     
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  10. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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    That`s my understanding Westy56, on reading the manuals for my different AVR`s, as well..
    Their max current rating is de-rated to some extent when the mains voltage drops, which it would seem a valid reason for buying/using an "overrated" current capacity power conditioner when it`s asked to preform under brown out , or low mains voltage conditions.
    FWIW, I`m no electrical Wizard, just a self taught electronic`s repair person/FOH sound engineer, with lot`s of years in the audio business(over 43) experience, and learned early on, that no electrical/electronic device will perform any better than the quality of it`s input electrical power, whether battery, or grid delivered.

    Enjoy your system`s electrical headroom..

    Take care, and have a great weekend Sir.

    Kind regards, OKB
     
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  11. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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    Thank you Westy for the likes, for that`s very kind of you.
    OKB
     

     

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  12. NeedForSpeed

    NeedForSpeed Hands Off The Stereo Subscriber

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    Exactly, Well said.
     
  13. PabloX

    PabloX AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Does it use capacitors to do this? I'm just trying to understand how it's possible. Thanks.
     
  14. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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    No capacitors for the boost, or reduce function in AVR`s, but they have noise filtering connected capacitors usually inside though.
    AVR`s generally use relays or Triacs(solid state AC switches) connected to selected taps(often around 5 volt steps) of a auto former(like a 130~140 volt (@ whatever it`s amperage rating) variac, with sensing and control circuits that monitor the in coming line voltage ..

    When the input voltage is low, like say 106~110 volts the circuit in the AVR detects this condition and sends a control signal to switch to a higher voltage tap on it`s autoformer, and if the incoming AC drops even lower, then it again switches to an even higher voltage boost tap until the incoming voltage range has dropped below the AVR`s lower limit, which often is 80~87 volts AC.

    I would guess when the incoming voltage becomes that low that the AVR would shut down, as that would be a very serious electrical brownout condition..

    Now, the AVR also does the same adjustment in reverse, for when the incoming AC is considered too high, it will then select a lower voltage tap, in all it tries to maintain it`s output voltage to a safe, close to 120 volt`s +/- whatever the particular device`s tolerance range might be, and how coarse or fine the AVR`s selected tap`s might be.

    I hope you understand how common AVR`s function, from my little simplified explanation, if not, then I guess, if no one else offer`s a better one, then Google`s your friend..

    Take care.
    Kind regards, OKB
     
  15. jwrosenthal

    jwrosenthal AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I’m glad to know the Monster went into alarm and shut-down. I luckily haven’t had occasion to experience anything close other than watching the meters dip and spike when the grid is taxed at the peak of summer A/C usage. I did have my Rotel show a low incoming alarm when the neighbor’s A/C’s kicked on all at once and the house lights dimmed and flickered, then the Rotel turned everything off.

    If you pull the cover on one of the bigger Monster HTS’s, there a lot of crap in there -transformer and caps and such- so they are doing more than a power strip and there is some real engineering that is well above my pay grade.
    Plus at under $200 for any of them on the used market , they’re a bargain.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
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  16. NeedForSpeed

    NeedForSpeed Hands Off The Stereo Subscriber

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    Agreed, It did what they said it would. I have no problem with that company. Plus they replaced it for 1/2 price. Once it alarms, It's done.
     

     

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  17. jwrosenthal

    jwrosenthal AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    ...it took the bullet- just like they said it would.
     
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  18. gtech

    gtech New Member

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    I would not turn my stereo on with out a power conditioner and voltage regulator.I personally use a Torus,not cheap but worth every penny.
    Aaron
     
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  19. audiobliss

    audiobliss New Member

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    Your understanding is correct, Your only hope with a direct hit, is if you have the system unplugged from the wall and the plug away from the outlet, because the lightening will jump to the plug.
    I use Brickwalls on everything, plus a whole house surge unit at the power meter. You can only hope to slow it down here in Florida.

    And don't forget, it can get you through the cable tv coax cable from outside also.
     
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  20. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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    Put a surge/spike protector in your load center too, audiobliss for another step/layer of protection.

    :beerchug: All, and I mean all, outside cables entering the dwelling must be properly protected, or lightning`s destructive energy will find your gear, plus all endpoint commonly connected gear(TV`s from a cable, and or sat. distribution network, as well..
    All wires in the attic are excellent ant`s for nearby lightning strike`s destructive EMP..
    Failure to properly protect will result in damage or destruction of all electrical/electronics.

    No damage from surges/spikes/ lightning since 1997, though my next door neighbors on both sides, and behind have multiple times after summer storms !!
     

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