Pre-pro and integrated amp

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by Robpar, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. Robpar

    Robpar New Member

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    Hello
    Tried to find some clear answers to this question but the responses got me more confused. OK, so here is what I want to do: current setup a NAD 375BEE integrated driving rear speaker and Parasound 2250v2 amp driving front towers connected to the NAD via pre-outs. This set up is used currently for music only. So I want to add a video preamp/processor (975 Outlaw Audio) so I can add a center channel and subwoofer for movies. I also have a small amp that I can use to drive the center channel.
    I want to switch between music or movies but for music I don't want the center channel. I guess i will need some kind of switch box, but what type? I would like to still use the NAD as the main source for music (I have all the sources connected to it) current sources: music player, turntable, sonos, computer, wireless input
    Can anybody clarify what i need to do?
    Thanks!
     

     

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  2. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    If you want the center channel for movies only, connect it directly to the Outlaw processor.
     
  3. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    [​IMG]

    Such arrangements will work but they are, frankly, bit of a kludge.

    Plain old stereo from the front/main speakers is easy, works like it always did.

    However, the sources you want to be in true surround sound need to connect to the Outlaw, generally by a digital connection. And, of course, on the NAD, select the input you used for the front connections from the Outlaw.

    Then, since multiple volume controls are involved, you'll need to get the surround sound levels dialed in using a combination of the adjustments in the Outlaw and the volume control of the NAD. Once you get the levels dialed in properly, put a small reference mark by the NAD volume control to indicate the setting for surround sound. Then, for surround sound, you'd set the NAD to that marked point and use the Outlaw volume as the master volume control.
     

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    Last edited: Jun 9, 2018
  4. Robpar

    Robpar New Member

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    Thank you Whoaru99
    I could not do it without the diagram. I think I understand
    One question: If I wanted the sub to work for music how would I connect? i would need a switch: correct?
    How do I download your diagram?
     
  5. Robpar

    Robpar New Member

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    Is there a better way to do this?
    One more question:
    Connecting the Outlaw via MAIN IN to the NAD would require a splitter? or a switch?
    [/QUOTE]
     
  6. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    I have a setup similar to what the OP has. The diagram drawn by whoru99 IMO won't work properly if you want 5.1 surround from HT sources. If stereo from 4 speakers plus a center and sub is what you want then follow his diagram. If that's what you want the Outlaw would be (IMO) a waste of money as you wouldn't be using any part of the surround signals but the center channel. You don't need a processor to add/use a subwoofer.

    If you want to use the subwoofer for stereo and HT use a pair of Y connectors to connect it between the NAD and Parasound. If you only want it for HT connect it directly to the Outlaw processor.

    I have an Emotiva processor w/center channel speaker/amplifier and surround speakers/amplifiers/subs. The LR front channel outputs from the processor are connected to a line input on my preamp. All two channel sources are connected to my preamp and through to my dual sub woofered bi-amplified front/main speakers. All my HT/Surround sources are connected directly to the processor.

    For two channel stereo sources I don't even turn the processor on. I then have a dedicated two channel system with IMO very good sound. For HT use I select the appropriate input on my preamp set the volume control at a pre-determined setting and turn on the processor. From that point everything is controlled by the processor.

    If you want true 5.1 sound you'll need another stereo power amp in addition to a mono amp for the center channel. Connecting 4 speakers to a stereo receiver/integrated/amplifier will not produce HT/Surround sound. In addition four speaker stereo usually has a negative effect on imaging and the soundstage.

    FWIW: I have some familiarity with the Outlaw 975 processor. I tried two of them prior to buying the Emotiva and couldn't get either to work properly. I promptly returned each and my money was refunded. Outlaw was very easy to deal with and their personnel were helpful.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
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  7. Erik Tracy

    Erik Tracy Super Member

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    It is possible to construct a dual purpose HT/Music system with the right components.

    Being able to use the sub for both HT(via AVR) and an integrated amp (or preamp-power amp combo) can be made to work w/o the need of swapping cables or using switches if the subwoofer has the ability to accept LFE inputs from the AVR and L/R line level inputs from the integrated.

    Here is a diagram of my overall system interconnection:
    [​IMG]

    Here is what the setup looks like when I'm watching movies
    [​IMG]

    And if I want to go old school for just 2-channel sources
    [​IMG]

    This has worked for years now. Not the most ideal room or setup, but it does work very well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
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  8. Grenadeslio

    Grenadeslio Super Member

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    Many ways to skin the same cat. I've used JoeESP9's method with great results. First put together my 2 channel music system based on a Carver preamp driving a Carver TFM-25 for the main speakers. Added a surround processor with pre outs for the other drivers. This fed into a Carver TFM -15cb for the 2 rear channels, another Carver TFM -15cb bridged mono for the center channel. Only a matter of engaging or disengaging the processor with a push of the button to switch between 2 channel and 5.2 surround.

    For the twin passive subs I connected a Y adapter to the processor's sub line out into a pro amp outputting 400watts per channel. To allow the subs to operate while in stereo mode the processor is engaged but set to "monitor" allowing the stereo signal to pass through, I just leave the center and rear channel amps turned off, best of both worlds.
     
  9. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    ET and Grenadeslio; our situations aren't all that different. I use all separates with separate electronic crossovers for front and rear with bi-amped front and surround speakers and a total of four subs. However, I believe there is a major difference between us and the OP. We use two speakers for stereo.
     
  10. Grenadeslio

    Grenadeslio Super Member

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    Quite true. Could easily be worked around with just a simple speaker switch allowing a second amplifier not connected to the processor to drive the rear speakers from the preamp's stereo outputs. No interest in 4 speaker stereo unless going 4 channel quad. As I have an amplifier with simulated and discrete 4 channel decoders not in use I guess you can say I really don't see the point lol.
     
  11. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    I believe it will.

    If you insist not, kindly explain why not.
     

     

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  12. Robpar

    Robpar New Member

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    Ok, now I am confused.
    I want 5.1 surround sound for HT; 4.0 for stereo (two fronts and two rear for stereo) Can you provide a diagram of how to connect all this stuff? do I need another power amp to power the surrounds?
    I am buying the new Outlaw 976 which also has a tuner, so I'll see how it works.
     
  13. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    There is no such thing as 4.0 for stereo. Stereo is two channels period. There is no rear for stereo.

    Setting up a system for 5.1 HT and "4.0 stereo" is rather difficult and a royal pita especially when you're using the same basic 4 speakers. In addition for 5.1 the rear/surround speakers need their own amplifier.
     
  14. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    Where is the amplifier needed for the surround channels of a 5.1 system?
     
  15. Robpar

    Robpar New Member

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    JoeESP9
    Sorry for my terminology. I meant 4 speaker stereo; 2 fronts and two rear; 2 channel.
    Anyway, I am even more confused now than when I started. In response to your question regarding whoareu99 diagram: I think he is using the main-in as the surround amplifier? (using the A or B speaker switch on the NAD) the front rear and left are being pre-out to the other amp that drives the front channels via the source control
    Am I correct? But would I need a switch to run the fronts thru when only using for stereo music? or a Y connector to the MAIN-IN?
     
  16. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    In the NAD.
     

     

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  17. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    So you insist on "four speaker stereo" too?
     
  18. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    You have the front out and surround out from the Outlaw going to the NAD. How do you get the front and surround separated? The NAD certainly can't do it. It would work if you ran separate lines for front and surround from the processor to the NAD for the surround and the Parasound for the fronts.

    It's still IMO a remarkably clutzy way to do the job. In addition, it offers no option for "4.0 stereo".
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018
  19. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    I suggest you review my diagram and inputs noted and the back panel of the NAD.

    Or, refer to post 15 where the OP explains it.
     
  20. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    Does the NAD have the ability to route two different stereo signals to two different pairs of outputs?

    Edit:
    Sorry my bad whoaru.:dunno: I looked more closely at your diagram. You are correct.

    Unfortunately that doesn't allow for the four speaker stereo the OP seems to be stuck on.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2018

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