PrimaLuna Preamplifier

[rickmusicman]

Does anyone have or know about PrimaLuna preamps, and can give me some information on the quality and sound. I have been looking for a tube preamp and this one looks good for what I read. I have looked at Jolida, Schiit, Rogue Audio and even Wyred4sound (not a tube but supposedly has the warmth of one). Thanks

 

[ictwoody]

I've never owned Primaluna but I've looked at them a lot. I would definitely take one over the others listed, they have an excellent reputation. I would call up Kevin Deal at Upscale Audio and talk to him about them.

Good tube preamps aren't nessessaily overly warm. I've never heard any solid state gear that is "voiced" to sound like tubes that sounded natural. Although the W4S stuff has a good rep, if you want tubes, buy tubes.

I think the Primaluna would be a good choice based on what I've read.

- Woody

 

[RGA]

I always laugh at their over the top sales pitch that no one else at double the prices uses better parts. Some of us can see the parts. First they use Torroids which is the antithesis to good sounding output transformers. Yes they offer low noise floors and higher power - that is the ONLY advantage to them and that's the reason SET makers don't employ them - if they sounded good they would use them and they cost less. Sonically they are second rate to EI and C-Core transformers and this is especially true in tube amplifiers.

Weight doesn't mean a damn thing lot of heavy amplifiers suck and lots of light amplifiers sound special. Weight for instance is often dependent on the tube output. One needs a much beefier transformer if one designs around an 845 output than if one is using an EL84. Same for dual mono - yes there is less (should be zero) crosstalk if you use dual mono and yes this is an advantage all things being equal but things are rarely equal - if the stereo amplifier sounds better because it uses say silver wiring, better designed and built transformers and resister volume pots then that can very well trump the advantage of a dual mono amp with lesser parts everywhere else.

And it's not always about the specific part - it may be that a $40 capacitor sounds much better in a particular amplifier than a $200 cap. That $200 cap may sound better in 6 other amplifiers but not in the particular amplifier in question. Weight can often largely be in the case or a BIG HEAVY but cheap and mediocre sounding toroid. Lots of ways to get weight that don't produce results in the listening.

I wouldn't buy jack squat without auditioning stuff. Lots of stuff gets raves that make me go "meh" and every brand gets rave reviews by someone.

You could get a Shindo Auriege preamp for around $3,000 and Audio Note M2 preamp for $3000 and the M1 line for $1800 and while not tubed is the Music First Audio Classic V2 for $3k. The first two will retain their value on the second hand market - not sure on the third. Net cost should be a factor not just the initial price paid.

Cover your bases especially if buying unheard. If you buy unheard and you don't like it - make sure you have something people will want to buy second hand and has value second hand. Made in China isn't typically held with high prestige factor. Nothing to do with sound necessarily it just is what it is.

 

[rickmusicman]

I always laugh at their over the top sales pitch that no one else at double the prices uses better parts. Some of us can see the parts. First they use Torroids which is the antithesis to good sounding output transformers. Yes they offer low noise floors and higher power - that is the ONLY advantage to them and that's the reason SET makers don't employ them - if they sounded good they would use them and they cost less. Sonically they are second rate to EI and C-Core transformers and this is especially true in tube amplifiers.

Weight doesn't mean a damn thing lot of heavy amplifiers suck and lots of light amplifiers sound special. Weight for instance is often dependent on the tube output. One needs a much beefier transformer if one designs around an 845 output than if one is using an EL84. Same for dual mono - yes there is less (should be zero) crosstalk if you use dual mono and yes this is an advantage all things being equal but things are rarely equal - if the stereo amplifier sounds better because it uses say silver wiring, better designed and built transformers and resister volume pots then that can very well trump the advantage of a dual mono amp with lesser parts everywhere else.

And it's not always about the specific part - it may be that a $40 capacitor sounds much better in a particular amplifier than a $200 cap. That $200 cap may sound better in 6 other amplifiers but not in the particular amplifier in question. Weight can often largely be in the case or a BIG HEAVY but cheap and mediocre sounding toroid. Lots of ways to get weight that don't produce results in the listening.

I wouldn't buy jack squat without auditioning stuff. Lots of stuff gets raves that make me go "meh" and every brand gets rave reviews by someone.

You could get a Shindo Auriege preamp for around $3,000 and Audio Note M2 preamp for $3000 and the M1 line for $1800 and while not tubed is the Music First Audio Classic V2 for $3k. The first two will retain their value on the second hand market - not sure on the third. Net cost should be a factor not just the initial price paid.

Cover your bases especially if buying unheard. If you buy unheard and you don't like it - make sure you have something people will want to buy second hand and has value second hand. Made in China isn't typically held with high prestige factor. Nothing to do with sound necessarily it just is what it is.

RGA,

Thanks for your input, I have read several posts in the past you had written and appreciate your expertise and opinions. My issue in buying a preamp is my budget, around $2,000.00 with some room to go beyond this price point. I am also at a disadvantage in that I live in Alaska, and it is very difficult to have the opportunity to listen to anything prior to buying. This causes me to rely on reviews and other peoples listening opinions. Reviews are not reliable, I actually have not read any negative reviews on any hi fi products. Of course we know the reasons, advertisement money, etc. I really look at these forums to get better and honest opinions. If you are aware of preamps in my price range, I would value this information. Thank, Rick

 

[RGA]

The problem with reviews is that most publications have reviewers choose stuff we like - so it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that items will get a good review. As a reviewer I really don't want to spend a month or two listening to stuff I don't like. But forum posters also have the same biases and they don't stake their name reputation on anything - often going by anonymous handles. You have no idea for example if the forum poster works for the company they are touting or a competing interest out to blast competitors or if they are making up their experiences.

So I look at things like resale value - while I am not American - Americans of the Capitalistic view let the market indicate what is quality. Regardless of what forumers and reviewers have to say.

Of course it's much more difficult to turn over every rock when you live in a remote area.

 

[rickmusicman]

The problem with reviews is that most publications have reviewers choose stuff we like - so it is pretty much a foregone conclusion that items will get a good review. As a reviewer I really don't want to spend a month or two listening to stuff I don't like. But forum posters also have the same biases and they don't stake their name reputation on anything - often going by anonymous handles. You have no idea for example if the forum poster works for the company they are touting or a competing interest out to blast competitors or if they are making up their experiences.

So I look at things like resale value - while I am not American - Americans of the Capitalistic view let the market indicate what is quality. Regardless of what forumers and reviewers have to say.

Of course it's much more difficult to turn over every rock when you live in a remote area.

RGA,

Are you familiar with Odessey Audio preamps and amplifiers? They make a tube preamp and solid state amps. Thanks

 

[matteos]

I have the PrimaLuna Prologue 3 Preamp with the onboard phono stage. It's a very good tube pre-amp. Point to point wiring and very solid and well made. The sound is top notch. Well recommended. I don't think it has a "tubey" sound at all. It just has a lot of realism and a giant soundstage/image and sense of air. You can't go wrong with it at all if that is what you are leaning towards.

Don't worry about "made in China"

The workmanship in this pre-amp is second to none. It is designed in Europe. It oozes quality Say the same thing about my KEF R900s. Designed in Europe, built in China. A LOT of Chinese made gear today is the equal in build quality to any other country.

 

[CohibaJoe]

Does anyone have or know about PrimaLuna preamps, and can give me some information on the quality and sound. I have been looking for a tube preamp and this one looks good for what I read. I have looked at Jolida, Schiit, Rogue Audio and even Wyred4sound (not a tube but supposedly has the warmth of one). Thanks

I have 2 Dealers within 30miles that sells PrimaLuna....And the 1 dealer I purchased also sells Rogue Audio, Moon, Balanced Audio Technology.

Rogue Audio The Cronus Magnum II did sound Very Good and it's around your price. I would not have any issues on buying this.

For me I was looking to spend around 4500 not including the Tubes. PrimaLuna is what I purchased as the quality of the Parts used
and how it's built. I would also contact Upscale Audio as they do carry a number of High End Brands and my Emails going back and
forth showed no Push on were to go. For me as I said....2 Dealers and I went to both and left with PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium HP.

 

[rickmusicman]

I have 2 Dealers within 30miles that sells PrimaLuna....And the 1 dealer I purchased also sells Rogue Audio, Moon, Balanced Audio Technology.

Rogue Audio The Cronus Magnum II did sound Very Good and it's around your price. I would not have any issues on buying this.

For me I was looking to spend around 4500 not including the Tubes. PrimaLuna is what I purchased as the quality of the Parts used
and how it's built. I would also contact Upscale Audio as they do carry a number of High End Brands and my Emails going back and
forth showed no Push on were to go. For me as I said....2 Dealers and I went to both and left with PrimaLuna DiaLogue Premium HP.

View attachment 920930

View attachment 920931

Cohiba.joe,

I have talked to a Kevin at Upscale Audio. I am planning on buying the Dialogue Premium Preamp in a couple of months. It looks to be a great preamp, price is more than I want to spend, but it looks like it is quality built.

 

[4-2-7]

I am planning on buying the Dialogue Premium Preamp in a couple of months.

Good news and when I seen this thread I was going to link you to Cohiba.joe...

It's a good thing he showed up instead of someone talking you out of something they have never owned. Please start a thread when you get it.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I've been reading about a hand-built preamp on a couple of other boards, where people have sung their praises of it. No personal experience with it. The Don Sachs SP14. You can have him customize it with specific caps & other parts. Prices run from $1500 to over $2000.

 

[rickmusicman]

Good news and when I seen this thread I was going to link you to Cohiba.joe...

It's a good thing he showed up instead of someone talking you out of something they have never owned. Please start a thread when you get it.

4-2-7,

I will do that, it wont be for awhile until I order it though.
Rick

 

[sonci]

Are Preamps still made today? What for?
Integrated sound good enough, even better Active Speakers!

 

[nyhifihead]

great input, One thing that sparked my interest in primaluna preamps myself was seeing how many people's top tier stereos on audiogon virtual systems had primaluna gear

 

[Bob in WI]

Are Preamps still made today? What for?
Integrated sound good enough, even better Active Speakers!

I learn something every day....

 

[4-2-7]

I learn something every day....

LOL, That thinking could have use all listening to our phones and earbuds.

 

[Mamrak1]

Are Preamps still made today? What for?
Integrated sound good enough, even better Active Speakers!

Thank God the Luddites are alive and active.

 

[Bob in WI]

Thank God the Luddites are alive and active.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion - I just couldn't resist that one. I should heve been more generous & just let it go but.....

 

[RGA]

Rick - I will add that you might want to look into certain passive preamps like the Emia autoformer preamps. Jack Roberts on our staff has had $25kplus preamps and has reviewed many very high end units from Audio Note and Shindo and Music First Audio and considers the Emia (at $3600) to be a lot lot better!

Which is saying something since I have recently just auditioned some Shindo and AN and ARC premium preamps.

http://www.dagogo.com/emia-remote-autoformer-review

Now I don't always agree with Jack but I often do and so it's definitely worth a look given it is in your price range. It's not a tube - but then again it doesn't come with any tube hassles either.

I can't vouch for it but I know some other people (ears I trust) who think it's absolutely fantastic as well. The volume control is really nice here as well with a lot more control. Here is their website. http://www.myemia.com/Prod.html

 

[sonci]

Thank God the Luddites are alive and active.

Luddite
ˈlʌdʌɪt/
noun
plural noun: Luddites

1. a member of any of the bands of English workers who destroyed machinery, especially in cotton and woollen mills, which they believed was threatening their jobs (1811–16).
   • derogatory
     a person opposed to increased industrialization or new technology.
     "a small-minded Luddite resisting progress"

I'm not against new technology, you are..
I apologize for my quick reply, but what earbuds? Active Genelecs or Atc??