Professor Bizzt feedback / PL L1000 Saga

Descartridge

Stereos been berry, berry good to me!
I had such a good AK experience that I feel the need to share it; sorry for the length but it is worth it.

I. PL L1000 #1 (see pic below)
I purchased my first PL L1000 off of CL as a “project”. It was grungy. Nearly everything did not work. It had no dust cover. There was a Shure headshell and decent cartridge, but the stylus was absent.
Many AKers encouraged me-thank you; but it would not function. So, off to my tech. He stated that it needed a new board.
Another “for parts” PL L1000 surfaced on the bay. The seller and I “agreed” on a deal for the board. Seller was confused with other parts and “winners”. Deal fell through.
Frustrated, I placed my PL L1000 up on the bay.
The first auction received no bids.
ProfBlitz made an offer.
The second auction on the bay received no bids.
Professor Bizzt and I agreed on a deal for it. After meeting via the wrong side of Tampa, we completed the deal.
One week later, Professor Bizzt communicated that he was successful in repairing the PL L1000 after detecting an obscure malfunction. I was happy for him.

II. PL L1000 #2
A few weeks later, Professor Bizzt emailed the question: are you aware that there is another PL L1000 in your area?
After a few messages, Professor Bizzt stated that it looks like it is all there and he could repair it if necessary.
After further scientific data and reviews provided by Professor Bizzt, more deliberation and a convincing view of the PL L1000 video on YouTube, I decided to make the gamble….
The PL L1000 was actually within 5 minutes of me.
The seller’s first auction on the bay received no bids.
I inspected the PL L1000 which was described as: THIS ON DOES NOT WORK AND IS IN POOR CONDITION. THE ARM MECHANISM IS BROKE OUT OF THE UNIT AND THE NEEDLE IS MISSING. THE TURNTABLE DOES NOT POWER ON. THERE ARE A COUPLE KNOB WEIGHT ITEMS WHICH ONE IS CHIPPED THAT I THINK COME OFF THE ARM MECHANISM.
See pic below
I made an offer- seller rejected it
The seller lowered the prices in the second auction. I agreed to a “buy it now”,
I emailed Professor Bizztt hat I had picked the deck up and he advised several approaches.
I adjusted the voltage switch to 120. EUREKA it worked! The auto functions worked! All of the lights worked! The quartz lock was instantaneous. It sounded fine.
I cleaned it. There still are a few acceptable nicks. The valuable dust cover came out surprisingly good.
I installed a Denon 160 high output MC and made the proper adjustments. It sounds excellent. It has replaced my venerable Micro-Seiki DD-40 as my number 1.
Here are a few pics:
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Conclusion
This was clearly a Karma experience.
For a mere $75, I think that I have a great sounding and the coolest linear tracking turntable. It is a joy to watch its functioning.

Professor Bizzt did not have to do what he did. Sans vested interests, Professor Bizzt really improved my musical listening experience. He is extremely knowledgeable, ethical and a highly recommended AK member.
 

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I guess you got the one I mentioned a week or so ago that was on eBay with the busted out arm? And made one good PL-L1000 out of two?
 
i'm confused. how did the broken arm get fixed once you got the power issue figured out? or was it not really broken at all?
 
YAY! Looks exactly like mine, right down to the cartridge. Think "karma" when you're rockin' out with that beauty!
 
I guess you got the one I mentioned a week or so ago that was on eBay with the busted out arm? And made one good PL-L1000 out of two?

Yes- this is the one. The are was not busted, just not installed correctly.
It was most probably a victim of haphazard shippng.
The first L1000, I sold in frustration. I was resolved never to look at one again.
The second L1000, after a couple hours of fiddling around is a gem.
 
i'm confused. how did the broken arm get fixed once you got the power issue figured out? or was it not really broken at all?

That arm is very stiff. Yes, it was never broken at all.
All I had to do was affix one of the dislocated rails and properly position the arm assembly.
 
Professor Bizzt feedback / PL-L1000 Saga

Thank you Rdecartridge for your kind words.

It's always a good feeling to know that vintage turntables from a special era in our history are being protected, restored, and preserved by dedicated audiophiles like yourself. As you know, my perspective on this subject is quite a passionate one.

Believe it or not, this is my first post to a forum, however I have had an extensive look around on both AudioKarma as well as the VinylEngine, DIYAudio, and many others. I think we should all be extremely grateful for the existence of these websites in helping us to restore and preserve these marvels of prior engineering.

A little background on the first PL-L1000 that Rdecartridge purchased:
After taking delivery of it, I put it on the bench to determine why there was a runaway speed condition present. I don't know what the exact speed was, but I know it was at least 120 RPM and certainly NOT good for the bearing. I then proceeded with the service manual's diagnostic flow chart for a motor runaway condition. Both IC's PA2004 and PA2005 were de-soldered one at a time and replaced with spare genuine Pioneer IC's I had on hand after methodically and humbly obeying the flow chart recommendations, but no luck was had despite measuring a decent Hall sensor waveform from all three sensors at the motor's Molex connector.

I decided to try plugging the over-speeding motor into a PL-L1000 board I knew to be functioning well. The over-speed was still present. Now I knew that the problem was inherent to the motor or the motor harness. I suspected a defective Hall sensor or sensors despite having previously measuring good on my oscilloscope. I ohmed them all out. They seemed OK (no specs for that in the service manual) and relatively uniform between all three.

After some head scratching and knowing that this simply had to be a Hall sensor problem, I decided to more closely examine the condition of the motor's Molex PCB connector. Well, there it was. A dern broken spring contact inside the Molex connector! This was preventing contact with the PCB header. So the moral of the story is to ALWAYS thoroughly check your direct drive turntable's connectors and make sure all switches and controls have been cleaned and lubed.

Regarding Rdecartridge's latest PL-L1000 purchase; I am happy that he has purchased what I consider to be the best overall turntable ever made. By overall, I mean when you take into account ALL factors such as availability, going used price, performance, simplicity and sensibility of design, reliability, modification practicality, etc. The PL-L1000A is even better IMHO.


Thanks, Professor Bizzt
 
Regarding Rdecartridge's latest PL-L1000 purchase; I am happy that he has purchased what I consider to be the best overall turntable ever made. By overall, I mean when you take into account ALL factors such as availability, going used price, performance, simplicity and sensibility of design, reliability, modification practicality, etc. The PL-L1000A is even better IMHO.
I actually prefer the arm position jog shuttle knob a lot better than the push buttons. I think the push buttons on the "A" were a way to save a little cost.
 
Whether the Pioneer PL-L1000 or PL-L1000A floats your tonearm control ergonomic boat better is a matter of personal choice. The fact that the A model has quite a few noteworthy and desirable performance upgrades from the 1000 is enough for me to respect what Pioneer was trying to achieve.

The criticism I have seen on some forums regarding the so called cost saving measures taken on the A model is unwarranted in my opinion. For example, one should not judge the “cheapness” of a turntable by the fact that its main PCB is smaller on the succeeding model. That's like saying that a modern day PC is inferior compared to a vintage UNIVAC computer because, by comparison, its electronics are small and cheap looking.

We should be aware that progress was the reason for the size reduction of circuitry employed in direct drive turntables. Yes, cost savings would have eventually been realized if the 1000A production run had continued long enough, but I seriously doubt that they sold enough of these to realize that potential.

Regarding the other upgrades Pioneer made to the original 1000; I see nothing but good things there. Coreless SHR motor, higher resolution FG (I think), polymer graphite arm pipe, other multiple small changes to the tonearm, simplified and shortened tonearm cable wiring. All this while still maintaining the same substantial aluminum top plinth and heavy platter. What's not to like?

Having said this regarding the A, I still like the original 1000 and for that matter the Phase Linear 8000 (same thing) a whole lot. Again, a darn good turntable. Not the very last word in any one aspect of turntable design (except maybe the superlative and unique linear induction tonearm carriage transport technology), but overall the best design I am aware of.

I have a lot of turntable work I have to do so you will all forgive me if I have to bow out for awhile. I will post when I have more time, but I can't make a life out of this unfortunately.

Thanks, Professor Bizzt
 
Professor Bizzt, have you checked the arm resonance between the metal and carbon fiber arm of the "A"? I would like to know if the carbon fiber arm moves the resonance up a few Hz toward the 10-12 Hz area.

Mine, checked with two high compliance cartridges, a Shure V15-III comes in around 7 Hz. and a Stanton 881S with the brush removed is around 5-6 Hz. Looks like it's about to jump off the record. This is using the Shure V15-V test record.
 
Hello Ed in TX,

That is a very good question and unfortunately I do not have all the data yet. I will post this info when I get it.

What I can tell you is that the counterweight from the PL-L1000 & PL-L1000A both weigh the same. I measured them both at 133 grams. The rated cartridge weight range for the PL-L1000 is 4 grams to 24 grams with original headshell. The rated cartridge weight range for the PL-L1000A is from 6 grams to 32 grams with original headshell.

The weight of the PL-L1000 arm pipe alone without headshell, vertical bearing housing, and counterweight is 13.58 grams (I measured it). By contrast, a Sony PS-T15 stainless steel arm pipe alone without headshell, vertical bearing housing, and counterweight is 19.40 grams (I measured that also).

This is all the data I have for now.

Thanks, Professor Bizzt
 
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Here is a little more info continuing from my last response:

The rated headshell weight for the PL-L1000 is 10.5 grams. I do not know what the weight is for the PL-L1000A headshell, but both look the same so I can only assume they are both the same weight.

If you want to raise the PL-L1000's fundamental cartridge/arm resonance, just change the universal headshell to a lighter one. Although doing this will usually result in rigidity, damping, resonance, and tonality changes intrinsic to headshells.

You could also add a second auxiliary counterweight to the rear of the existing one and then screw the whole counterweight pair closer to the pivot. This would result in lower tonearm inertia and thus your fundamental cartridge/arm resonance would increase in frequency somewhat (I can't tell you how much). Of course the added mass of the counterweight pair would change the dynamic damping characteristics, but IMO it is probably not set at the correct frequency anyway and the effectiveness of dynamic damping has been questioned before as well. That's another topic...

You could also use a different cartridge of lower mass or lower compliance.

Alternatively, you could get yourself an Audio Technica AT-666 vacuum mat so your record warp issues would be reduced.

Perhaps add damping to the tonearm to control the arm better at the lower than ideal fundamental you are experiencing.

Or finally, you could just ignore the “problem” and simply not play warped records and accept your low fundamental resonance condition. For example, Denon DL-103 fans seem to purposely shoot for lower than 12 Hertz fundamentals all the time.

Hope this helps, Professor Bizzt
 
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Here is a little more info continuing from my last response:

The rated headshell weight for the PL-L1000 is 10.5 grams. I do not know what the weight is for the PL-L1000A headshell, but both look the same so I can only assume they are both the same weight.
Do you have the service manuals for both? The part numbers may be the same.

If you want to raise the PL-L1000's fundamental cartridge/arm resonance, just change the universal headshell to a lighter one. Although doing this will usually result in rigidity, damping, resonance, and tonality changes intrinsic to headshells.

I have a couple of the PA-1000 carbon fiber headshells I might try. I recall they are 1 to 2 grams lighter than the stock headshell.

You could also add a second auxiliary counterweight to the rear of the existing one and then screw the whole counterweight pair closer to the pivot. This would result in lower tonearm inertia and thus your fundamental cartridge/arm resonance would increase in frequency somewhat (I can't tell you how much)...

Which brings up the little weight that screws into the end of the arm. My Phase Linear 8000 came with one I've never used. It's smaller, weighs 11.8 grams,compared to the longer one that weighs 12.9 grams which was in the arm of the 1000 when I got it. I don't recall if that piece was an accessory, I don't show it in my 8000 user manual. I do have the bigger counterweight that came with it. Never been out of the plastic bag.

You could also use a different cartridge that has lower mass.

I've experimented a little with different cartridges. I have a Stanton 681EEE-S that rings in around 10-11 Hz in a stock headshell. Somewhat less compliant than the other two I tried.

Alternatively, you could get yourself an Audio Technica AT-666 vacuum mat so your record warp issues would be reduced.

Perhaps add damping to the tonearm to control the arm better at the lower than ideal fundamental you are experiencing.

The Shure V-15-V MR I have with the dynamic stabilizer definitely works to kill the resonance.


Or finally, you could just ignore the “problem” and simply not play warped records and accept your low fundamental resonance condition. For example, Denon DL-103 fans seem to purposely shoot for lower than 12 Hertz fundamentals all the time.

Hope this helps, Professor Bizzt

I've been running that Phase Linear since new, 30+ years, and this has really never been a problem. I was curious since you know both versions of this turntable, if you had possibly done some measuring on the difference the carbon fiber arm made. THANKS for your insight!
 
The Phase Linear 8000 series two headshell part number is: 930-8019
The PL-L1000's headshell part number is unknown because it is not listed in the service manual.
The PL-L1000A headshell is: PXA-809 or JP-511

Again, the 1000 and 1000A headshells both look identical. It looks like the 8000 has the same headshell as well.

I have all three service manuals. I plan on uploading the 1000A to the Vinyl Engine soon. Not much point in uploading the 8000 series two manual because short of part number changes, it seems to be the same as the 1000.

I have a Shure V15VMR also. Nice cartridge! I firmly believe in Shure's Dynamic Stabilizer technology for controlling fundamental cartridge/arm resonance, a little extra record cleaning, and draining static charges from the surface. It is really too bad that high-end cartridge manufacturers could not see the benefit in using a dynamic stabilizer.

Signing off for awhile.

Best wishes, Professor Bizzt
 
Thank you Rdecartridge for your kind words.
<--snip-->
Regarding Rdecartridge's latest PL-L1000 purchase; I am happy that he has purchased what I consider to be the best overall turntable ever made. By overall, I mean when you take into account ALL factors such as availability, going used price, performance, simplicity and sensibility of design, reliability, modification practicality, etc. The PL-L1000A is even better IMHO.


Thanks, Professor Bizzt
Interesting evaluation. Could you please expand on the modification potential of the L1000 ?
 
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