Question of Sansui Quality?

fliphandywork

He lives!!!
Greetings and Happy New Year.

I was at the local "Hi-Fi" shop picking up my subwoofer and got into a conversation with the sales person. He asked what I was using to run my system and I told him a newly rebuilt Sansui 9090DB (unit is currently being rebuilt by Echowars). He asked why on earth I would waste my money on an old receiver like that. Frankly I wanted to drop kick the guy!!! He then asked me if I served in the military, more specifically Vietnam(i'm 24). He then said, "Come on in and let me show you the newest Rotel and Aragon equipment, it will blow that old Sansui away." So I humored him knowing full well that my Sansui was far beyond the quality of what he was showing me. Then... I went home.

This is what I make of it. I have heard that Sansui didn't get the best press in the US back in the day. Is the reason that guys in the service are so keen to the quality of Sansui because they were overseas where it received good reviews?
 
Can this Sales buffoon tell his Ass from a hole in the ground. I doubt it. Keep the Sansui and keep a whole lotta of Greenbacks in your pocket.

Ive heard the same thing repeated over and over from new equip sales guys. Its just a rumor for the most part. Lets see where his Black plastic crap is in 25-30 years...
 
Rotel and Aragon equipment, it will blow that old Sansui away." So I humored him knowing full well that my Sansui was far beyond the quality of what he was showing me.



To be honest im guessing that the rotel and aragon are better. sound wise. And this is coming from a sansui fan.! But obviosly they cost a lot more and arent as much fun.

For him to knock what you have and try to sell you something else is plain rude though.
 
l wonder?

Haoled assuming the 25 year old Sansui is gone over and restored l believe economics of design would favour it relative to the newer stuff.

The only purpose of the 70's Sansui was to produce a product dedicated to audio. Now the newer stuff has to be able to produce audio of course but more importantly ( not to me but the consumer) be able to perform all the home theatre functions. I really do have limited experience with newer equipment but l've lifted some of the newer receivers most recently a ten pound Technics home receiver that is rated at a 100 watts per channel.

I really have a difficult time accepting the new plastic receivers are superior. Just an opinion from a old guy who loves 70 receivers.:D
 
new plastic recievers. no. i dunno if your familiar with rotel equipment but its definetly not a plastic reciever!

The sansui gear is nice stuff. i especially like their AU amps and of course the BA. their recievers are nice indeed. but really if i had to put my money on a sansui reciever, restored or not aginst some rotel amp id put it on the rotel. of course ive never had a sansui reciever so maybe after listening to them both i would change my mine :)
 
Well, it possible that this salesman wasnt necessarily anti-Sansui so much as anti-vintage hi fi equipment. I get the feeling that if you told him you had a Pioneer so-and-so model, or Kenwood this, Onkyo that, he probably wouldve substituted that model into his statement about how inferior it is in comparison to his new merchandise.

I like to read thru the latest issue of Stereophile every now & then which usually reviews the type of equipment that salesman has in his place of business. I imagine there's alot of "hi-end" stereo equipment out there thats quite good, however, thats not to say the 9090DB should be rendered obsolete as the salesman would like for you to believe.

You didnt mention his approximate age, but if he remembers the Vietnam War, I would have thought someone in his age group would actually feel more nostalgic about vintage gear. Unless, he is a young guy who happened to have only heard of the V.W. and faintly associates Sansui with men who served in the military.

Well, you can always make him prove his claim by bringing that "old" Sansui into his store sometime and request that he do a blindfold-listening test for you. Surely now, if his new merchandise is so SUPERIOR to the decrepit Sansui, it should be quite easy for him to distinguish the sound between them. :)

B/F
 
Originally posted by fliphandywork
He was approx. 50-55.

When my father was about 50-55, he thought it was loosing his hearing. His tests proved that there was a massive amount of hearing loss, and something had to be done.. based on the test results.. he would go deaf.

The first thing they did was clean his ears. That resolved the problem.

Now, not to be unkind to the 50+ crowd, but anyone 50+ making reccomendations on audio equipment, it is actually a legit quesiton as to the last time they have had their ears cleaned. I'm not in that bracket my self, and I know for a fact I need it.
 
There are a lot of new pieces on the market that sound pretty damn good.

However, allow me to sum up my take on the vast majority of the new gear: They have no soul.

That is all...EW out.
 
Rotel and Aragon are pretty good gear, built the "old-fashioned" way. Don't think I'd say it would 'destroy' or 'blow away' a resored TOTL vintage piece, though.

I'm 50-55, and I think I have pretty good ears. I just want good sound. That my gear tends to be 'old,' well, I have it 'cause it sounds as good as what is out there new, today. I love that vintage gear, but if it didn't do the job, I wouldn't have it.
 
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Whether the Sansui is as good as the newer stuff or not or whether the salesman was rude or not is beside the point to me.

The guy is a damned fool. You don't sell anthing to a potential buyer by making fun of the buyer's equipment etc. In doing so you are in effect making fun of the customer.

This in addition to being insulting is totally counterproductive as the customer is placed in the position that forces him to admit that his product knowledge, taste etc. are inferior to that of the salesperson should he be tempted to buy.

If I were that salesman I would have been inclined to say - Sansui put out some great equipment back in the 70's didn't they ? Have you heard any of the equipment Aragon has out ? Their new model etc.etc.
 
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Gee wonder if this was at Almas Hi Buck....I mean "HiFi" again :rolleyes:
 
lynnm,

I agree. Poor salesmanship and bad people skills can kill a deal quicker then a lil' bit. Is it just me or is this becoming a trend ? Its so obvious (to me anyway) that successful businesses are the ones that bend over backwards for the customer. Seems like a no-brainer :dunno:

J
 
Originally posted by Johnny
lynnm,

I agree. Poor salesmanship and bad people skills can kill a deal quicker then a lil' bit. Is it just me or is this becoming a trend ? Its so obvious (to me anyway) that successful businesses are the ones that bend over backwards for the customer. Seems like a no-brainer :dunno:

J

Actually, i'm going to dispute this point. Bad salesmen have always existed regardless of the year. What you are calling "bad salesmanship" is actually an attempt at emotional manipluation, an effective attempt at emotional manipluation, otherwise in the case of audio, why am I finding so many recievers and amps at goodwill? Basicly it goes like this, if you say something in a firm enough manner, people have a tendancy of believing you.

Now, to be fair, the salesman has a valid point.. why repair when you can buy new, which would only be a valid point if the cost of repairs were more then the cost of new equipment that is of equal or similar quality. This is a very valid concern... but would require some research and it's generally much easier to be an all knowing bonehead.

But based on my observations, the businesses that pull in the most profit are ones that either consistently shaft people, or just offer the lowest price, or a combo of both together. If you have any doubts about my statement, see walmart. Walmart does very well dispite the fact that their staff isn't well versed in what they are selling, and based on what i've heard, refuses returns on stuff.
 
I think the comments that I made in my previous message were well-written. Ok, so now I know from what I asked you and your reply, the salesman is in his 50's (thus he is likely to be familiar with 70's era hi fi equipment).

So, as I stated before, if Mr. Salesman is so convinced that his new merchandise is much, much better than the Sansui 'dinosaur', why not ask him if he can prove it to you by doing a blind listening test? The whole point is if the new stuff is so superior as he claims, he should be able to easily distinguish the sound between them. Are are you saying that he will try and wriggle out of being put on the spot by using his age and diminished hearing ability as an excuse? I can understand if he was in his 80's, but early 50's?

B/F
 
Originally posted by BeatleFred
I think the comments that I made in my previous message were well-written. Ok, so now I know from what I asked you and your reply, the salesman is in his 50's (thus he is likely to be familiar with 70's era hi fi equipment).

So, as I stated before, if Mr. Salesman is so convinced that his new merchandise is much, much better than the Sansui 'dinosaur', why not ask him if he can prove it to you by doing a blind listening test? The whole point is if the new stuff is so superior as he claims, he should be able to easily distinguish the sound between them. Are are you saying that he will try and wriggle out of being put on the spot by using his age and diminished hearing ability as an excuse? I can understand if he was in his 80's, but early 50's?

B/F

Well... I'm in my early 30's and I've had deminished hearing from waxy buildup... nothing that I can actually detect unless put on the bench and tested... with the exception high pitched alarms some distance away that I started to not notice when they went off. Most of my hearing needs require me to listen to beeps. Same with my vision pretty much, I never noticed I lost some till I noticed all my pictures were slightly out of focus.

Now a person in their early 50's... who was in vietnam, assuming their human, is going to have a lot of waxy build up, assuming they were anywhere close to all those people running around and shooting one another. It's not ment to be an offencive remark, but a matter of fact.

I'm not saying the sales person is going to try to wiggle out of it because of lossed hearing... I'm saying one... with waxy ears, might not nessicarly be the best judge of equipment.

I believe the sales person just doesn't have a clue, as in they could care less as to what's better, and are resorting to emotional manipluation in order to get a sale.

I say this based on my experence shoping around for stuff. Looking for new bookshelf speakers there is a tendancy of the sales people pushing bose. I did one blind test where according to the nice sales person, I picked the Bose as being my choice. This didn't make much sence to me at all. So I decided to comeback another time and do another blind test, this time making sure the bose speakers were disconnected. And again, the nice sales person said I picked the Bose. "Wow, that's amazing... I didn't realize these were wireless speakers, and such quality too, where to the batteries go". What's worse was the salesperson tried to say "oh yea, they are wireless, they must be charged through this cable here, amazing technology".

If you want to do a field test on this theory, feel free. I'm sure you'll be amused with the results.
 
I'd put a restored Sansui 9090 or 6060 or whatever up against any modern integrated in the same power class in a blind test. Bet ya they're close or equal. :) And the Aragon or Rotel or Musical Fidelity ain't got nuttin on the Sansui for coolness factor. :D

TP
 
Easy to overrate and underrate the new gear

First, I would not characterize the new Rotel stuff as crap. The amps are much more powerful than the rating suggests and have very high damping factors. They are capable of driving very difficult speaker loads without distorting. If you give it the heft test (heavier gear is usually better) it will pass. However...

These amps can also sound terribly harsh. Add in a poorly done CD and some metal tweeters, and you can really torture your ears.

A couple of years ago, I bought a new rig. I seriously considered Rotel's 100 WPC integrated, but bought a Creek amp instead.

Right now the Creek is taking a break and my G-8000 is doing the honors on my main system. Relative to the Creek, the G-8000 produces a warmer, more rounded sound. I hear a bit less detail, but what I hear is great. Everyone who hears it comments that it really sounds good. I don't know how much of the fine detail might be recovered if I restored the receiver.

If it were me, I would go and listen to the new gear. However, the new amps are unlikely to blow you away.
 
Well we are all entitled to our opinions. Mine are based on listening to the TOTL B&W's driven by some huge hunk of Black Rotel. Sounded Gawd awful !

Don't have a crystal ball but if I had to venture a guess id say that that huge ass Black rotel would be in the landfill in less then 10 years or proping up my work bench in the garage...
 
Hi Grumpy

Well we are all entitled to our opinions. Mine are based on listening to the TOTL B&W's driven by some huge hunk of Black Rotel. Sounded Gawd awful !

Yes, that combination can be brutal. You take a very assertive sounding amp and play it through a speaker that is very precise, almost bright, and the sound is harsh. I'd also suggest you avoid JM Lab speakers with that amp. They are great stuff, just not with that amp.

Instead, try the Rotel amps with a speaker that is a little more layed-back, maybe a Meadowlark or a Vandersteen. I was particularly impressed by the sound of the Vandersteen 2 speakers driven by a 200W Rotel power amp.
 
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