Ramblings about system goals, listening fatigue, diminishing returns

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by corbin, May 10, 2018.

  1. botrytis

    botrytis Trying not to be a Small Speaker Hoarder Subscriber

    I agree but people want to be right and their opinion is absolute. That is the issue. They believe they can't be right while others are right. Most don't see the issue with this hobby being more about taste (which is subjective) than it is about right or wrong. I mean why are there so many different speakers out there? If only one was right, we would have a monopoly. As it is, differing tastes demand different speakers, there is no right or wrong. It is a problem with human Nature, unfortunately.
     

     

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  2. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Well, at least all the different gear and speakers are an opportunity and not a problem.
     
  3. tubed

    tubed Lunatic Member

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    I disagree.
    From what I've observed, most here on AK are not most interested in being "about right or wrong" and more about enjoying what they have or about to have, perhaps hoping to be right about their choices, imo
    Although there are a few concerned about being right, absolutely ;).
     
  4. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    The argument is always to belittle, as he is the only one with the best sounding gear and the deity anointed him a sound connoisseur.

    The setup in the room is what I'm talking about and you might like to try it. A conventional set up with proper speaker placement out from the walls and hight putting the tweeter at head hight while sitting. Less gear in the middle and maybe only 1 to 3 speakers setup at a time.

    Ivan-Messer-listening-room.jpg
     
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  5. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I did. I missed the speaker variety.
     
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  6. HarmanKardon

    HarmanKardon Tubes still smell funny Subscriber

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    Thank you, Tim!
     
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  7. savatage1973

    savatage1973 Addicted Member

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    This is partially true. Manufacturers have to turn a profit, or it is not a viable business, but they don't have to strive to maximize that profit margin at the expense of quality and/or their reputation--which will eventually kill the business anyways.

    "Standard of Excellence" is a relative term--perhaps better stated as the best you can buy at this price point. All products are built to a price point to "fit" into the market. It is the "bang for the buck" concept that is reflected in so many inquiries here on AK--the "what is the best XXYYZZ that I can buy for $500?" type of threads. So SOE is about maintaining/improving product quality and reputation in a given market price bracket, which in turn, fuels the first part by increasing sales and thus total profit revenue as well.
     
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  8. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    I know and that's why I said the above. Even in my system I have three different power amp/speaker setups that I can select for different music. But they are at least placed at a proper hight, toe in, spaced apart and off the walls for the best sound stage and imaging I can get in my room. I also know I can do better and have less in the room but I like a bit of options.

    You can still have the variety just store it out of the room and swap them around once in a while. What you have going on now is you can't really hear how any of those speakers sound. Anyway you where asking how to get better SQ with old equipment, well this is just a free to do, and a tip to get better sound out of any equipment.
     
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  9. darkblue94

    darkblue94 It wasn't me. Subscriber

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    Well I kicked a lot of ass, that much is true. :cool:
     
  10. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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    :thumbsup:
     
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  11. Bill Ferris

    Bill Ferris Super Member

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    Very good Sir. and thanks for the like.
     

     

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  12. onwardjames

    onwardjames Hoardimus Maximus Subscriber

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    Since I feel my previous post might have had a bit too much....passion, shall we say.....let me simply state what is on my heart.

    I have been at this since I was in diapers. I have what many would admit are speakers of very high esteem (McIntosh XRT 20's) and yet, when someone comes on here, regardless of how long they've been with us, and makes comments that might seem absurd (hey, this cheap thing is as good as that EXCEPTIONALLY NOT CHEAP THING) I just let it slide.

    De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum. Thanks to the member formerly known as bentpencil, who had this as his sig (or was it mhardy?) I see things in this light.

    In matters of taste, there are no absolutes.

    So, please everyone, let's just try to see things from a viewpoint other than our own. We're not audio police. We're enthusiasts.

    So.......be enthusiastic!
     
  13. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Yes, your so right about the speakers. I was able to move them about a little bit. The toe improved, the height isn't wrong on all of them and at least they're not completely cornered on the back side walls any more.
    The CS99A and Kenwood KL777A like the floor, the Dynaco likes the ceiling, the Advent are almost strait on, the Wharfedale doesn't can where they are after the tweeter swop and the best place for the MachOne is a different house. So the still drastic compromises aren't as severe as they were. I don't want it to grow into another room least it take over the house.
    I am intrigued at the thought of significant improvement to a 70s receiver.
     

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  14. onwardjames

    onwardjames Hoardimus Maximus Subscriber

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    And this is good advice. Thank you, Dan.
     
  15. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Yes it is. I think it was 4-2-7 that prompted me to eliminate some a few weeks ago. Or it may have been E-Stat.
    Anyway it made a big difference. The speaker personalities are much more distinct now. I'm going to leave it the way it is for awhile because I don't want to move speakers in and out of the room and I'm trying to avoid hoarding. I'm finally listening to music more than playing with or listening to gear.
    As a side note single large organ music really likes multiple speakers here.
     
  16. Ken Boyd

    Ken Boyd Lunatic Member

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    Business use different models but no business is going to be profitable if they don't produce a product that enough of the public desires. You can't honestly think that a business would build something with only profit in mind without even considering market appeal. The past models were, you had a item that you thought the public would want and you would proceed to build the item and then your price would be determined based on the cost of doing business. You depended on the fact that your product was, or had something that the public wanted over your competitors. I am pretty sure these basic ideas hold true, but you do have to be mindful of the fact that a low cost item has more market appeal if all else items are equal than a more expensive item. You can't just sell something that has large profits if the product is not what the market wants.
     
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  17. E-Stat

    E-Stat Addicted Member

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    Do whatever pleases you most, but the most significant limitation I see is the massive cabinet destroying what could be a diffraction-free center image.

    Which is extremely easy to achieve today. Don't forget about the source(s) either.
     
  18. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Is the cabinet destroying the visual center image or the sound center image, or both? The cabinet can play a part in the sound too right? In any case I ain't changing my cabinet.
    I haven't even started exploring different sources. But I will now because the lap top power cord transformer now has a buzz as of last week. Don't know why. Unplug power cord from lap top no buzz. I don't have another cord handy to test.
    I'm already tired of the music from cable tv. I'll try my android phone next.
     
  19. E-Stat

    E-Stat Addicted Member

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    Strictly in audible terms. I'm unconcerned with the visual effect. There is no consistent left to right soundstage.

    Only in negative terms. It creates diffraction. It kills the illusion of a coherent center image.

    Imagine attending a concert where sixty percent of the center stage is filled with a giant box with performers located on either side of it.

    Some folks get it. :)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018 at 8:17 PM
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  20. Djcoolray

    Djcoolray Addicted Member

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    Exactly so.....

    The cost of building the unit is in itself the limiting factor therefore the more expensive units that have higher quality internal components contribute effectively to the design. When price point is considered to make a profit it is impossible to create excellence and a profit at the same time. When making a profit irregardless of who’s making the equipment, every unit is somewhere between excellence and out right crap due to price point. So any unit can be improved beyond OEM....
     
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