Ramblings about system goals, listening fatigue, diminishing returns

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by corbin, May 10, 2018.

  1. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    Let it slide?
    But that's the issue with a lot of things and people doing all their learning from reading on the internet. Most likely how the OP has got their beliefs and perpetuation of the same in their comments here for another new to the hobby to learn by.

    I can fully understand SQ is subjective,but when you even eliminate the subjectivity as in never hearing and generalizing due to a price point keeping from even have hands on testing. Then to go spread fallacies on something you never heard and don't know about on a open forum, questions need to be asked, and or the statement challenged.

    As you see in my first comment to the OP

    Part of the response back to me.

    And you can see that it's the perpetuation of a mythical internet belief and where they leaned from.

    Yeah I know how quiet is enjoying the hobby but I'm just trying delicatly to get them to expand their thinking of other ways to enjoy it. Like getting the best SQ we can with what we have. You know me I wasn't all SQ when I got here either, in fact I was changing a bit just before I signed up. I'v had all sorts of old gear and running stacked speakers in all 4 corners of the room with quad. I enjoy the SQ and music today more than what I was doing before.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  2. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    Yes I did see you take the time and effort to move your speakers around a bit and you liking the results. Just keep thinking of the less is more and that you can always tweak what you have.

    You mentioned having, wanting and needing all your gear in one room. I know people that have a collection like yours all in their one room. They will have it all displayed, but they have their system wall setup conventionally. They can then easily swap in different speakers and receivers to listen to as needed.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  3. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    The people with much better sound than I don't have to take the time to point out the things I can do to improve what I have. They would get along just fine without me. Without them my system would sound like trash for a while longer as I figured it out on my own. I find them to be very patient as I progress. I've just been told I need to get the big box out of the middle of the stage. And that's true. So yet another change. Every suggested changed has yielded instant improvement. My part is to listen without attitude or arguing and not waist their time.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
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  4. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    Very humble attitude you show. When I first saw your avatar I had many of the same suggestions for better sound. However, around these parts there are some ego's that don't take well to constructive criticism. Consequently I posted nothing.

    Let it be known that I totally agree with E-Stat and 4-2-7. Their suggestions, especially E-Stats mirror what my system has evolved to be in the 50+ years I've been involved with this "hobby".

    If you must have unused speakers in a room you should at minimum short their input terminals.
     
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  5. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    Or to save all that moving around just to try it, move your speaker out from the wall and the cabinet face parallel to the backs of the speakers
     
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  6. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I remember reading about shorting the unused speakers. I use them all regularly. Sometimes within minutes of each other. I wonder if they have some damping benefit.
    I don't have ego room right now, to busy having fun.
    Most people understand this is the road I want to go down for now and try to help me with that I want, not what they want.
    I assumed from the start many people had silent opinions and didn't want to insult me or start a ruckus.
     
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  7. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    You can easily feel the vibrations from speaker cones on unused speakers. Anything that vibrates along with the active speakers has a negative effect on the sound.
     
  8. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    That was last nights late night exercise. They sit on plywood and I can walk them around on the tile floor. This put the speaker face 10 feet from my ears. Also removed the MachOnes. Maybe good speakers but not for me. It does sound better but I think some of that is a result of dropping the top speakers down after the Mach removal.
    Yep, two changes at once. Bad procedure. So I push them back and start over.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  9. E-Stat

    E-Stat AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I doubt anyone was motivated by either factor. Add choice "C" - offer helpful advice for better sound. :)
     
  10. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    .C.
     
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  11. DaveVoorhis

    DaveVoorhis Super Member

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    I don't have silent opinions. When I have opinions -- which I prefer to call "immutable and indubitable truths" -- I express them noisily, and if that starts a ruckus or a few tender snowflakes melt in the onslaught, well...

    Good.
     

     

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  12. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Well I wouldn't question or ask you to change any of your truths.
    It's 95% here today.
     
  13. Ken Boyd

    Ken Boyd AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I had no idea regarding this, so I am really screwed with 4 pairs of speakers in the wings not active. And simply shorting the binders stops them from vibrating?
     
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  14. JoeESP9

    JoeESP9 ESL's & tubes since 83

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    Shorting the inputs will not eliminate all sympathetic vibrations. However, it will reduce their intensity. It's a free tweak. Give it a try. If you hear no difference you've lost nothing.
     
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  15. DaveVoorhis

    DaveVoorhis Super Member

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    Shorted speaker terminals creates an electrical load on the windings that causes them to act like an electromagnetic brake, limiting the movement of the cone.
     
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  16. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Someone pointed out in an earlier thread that the led lights on their non connected speakers were twinkling. The speaker is a motor. I guess the motor can be run in reverse. If you short them you apply the brakes, I think.
     

     

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  17. Ken Boyd

    Ken Boyd AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Makes sense. Thanks for the tip I will try it.
     
  18. quiet

    quiet AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    But, but ,but.....
    They may be more to the story. What I want to know is. Since the led lights were blinking and we know the drivers were moving does that mean the damping material inside the speaker is acting as a room treatment? Or is the cone vibration just messing things up like other things in the room can.
     
  19. Alobar

    Alobar Pulling out of the Last Chance Texaco.. Subscriber

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    While I agree about all viewpoints being allowed a voice, there needs to be a way to counter viewpoints too. When someone comes on line saying that anything over 90 percent (of whatever, nirvana perhaps) will be diminishing returns, it says something. That those who seek out the best we can afford are a diminishing breed who still wants to pay for quality sound, diminishing returns be damned. Sadly most of the world has gotten on the diminishing returns bandwagon, as proof of Walmart's cheap sound systems flooding homes across the world, some even with legacy brand names.

    This, being an audio site I think there needs to be some defense from the new status quo who says we are a bunch of money wasting fools if we stray from the flock and spend more than what is sensible on audio.
     
  20. onwardjames

    onwardjames Hoardimus Maximus Subscriber

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    Alobar, you speak wisely, and I agree.

    People say all sorts of stuff that is simply wrong. I go back and read some of my first posts here, and whoa......was I ever green, and wrong. Flatly embarrassing.

    But, with patience from older, senior members, I learned. I didn't need to be chastised, ostracized, or marginalized. I finally learned.

    Those that WILL eventually get it, like myself and many others, will get it. Those that won't, well....they wouldn't get it no matter what you'd tell them, however well-intentioned.

    What's that saying??? "For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. Those who would not, no explanation would suffice."

    Or something like that, lol.
     

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