re cap=crap

You are saying that girls whispering in my ear will burn in stuff faster than heavy death metal? I guess.
 
The problem with the psychosomatic explanations is these very noticeable changes have been mesured by people like myself. REW is free and a calibrated UMIC microphone isn't much money.

Why guess or try to explain away what you're hearing when the analysis tools are readily available?
 
The problem with the psychosomatic explanations is these very noticeable changes have been mesured by people like myself. REW is free and a calibrated UMIC microphone isn't much money.

Why guess or try to explain away what you're hearing when the analysis tools are readily available?
Do you mean you've measured, say, newly-installed capacitors in speakers showing different results over time using REW?

Could you describe your methodology and show your results?
 
Of course, burn-in should be distinguished from electrolytic capacitors reforming, which is a known factor. A newly-bought electrolytic cap may sit in a warehouse for years before it winds up in your hands, and could well need to reform before reaching its nominal capacity.
 
"ev13wt said:
That is the psycological effect I am talking about.
Takes around 50 hours for some to adjust to the new sound psycologically. Then, it sounds "correct" again.

Nothing physical has changed. Burn-in does not exist except in compression driver surrounds for, let say, a horn subwoofer."


I believe you are wrong. Ive had amps and speakers that didnt need a break-in, and some that do. I belong to a group that owns the same brand of speakers, they report the same.

Let me know what is psychosomatic when you actually have a similar setup and report to the contrary.
 
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Of course, burn-in should be distinguished from electrolytic capacitors reforming, which is a known factor. A newly-bought electrolytic cap may sit in a warehouse for years before it winds up in your hands, and could well need to reform before reaching its nominal capacity.

Caps form when they have DC applied to them, such as in a power supply filter. Is the same true for AC signals such as music? "Forming" as I understand it means the electrolyte distributes itself to plus and minus (voltage) sides of the capacitor. But they will only do that when a DC voltage is applied. Since sound is AC, polarity is actually flipping back and forth constantly, so there really is no 'forming' taking place. Unless I don't quite understand how it works, which is very possible.

I would therefore conclude that a nonpolar electrolytic cap (which is really a type of sandwich of polarized caps) would need negligible break-in time with respect to forming.
 
I've used ClarityCaps in AR 3-way dome speakers. I wasn't crazy at first, with the results either. Regardless if one believes in capacitor burn-in or not, to me ClarityCaps take a long time to settle in. And even then, I still noticed the same issues, that I heard when the caps were newly installed. Just the 'flaws' were lessened with time.

Also, to me it's not difficult to hear the capacitors breaking in. I typically take notes, and play the same series of tracks, as the capacitors are run in. Noting if what I first heard is still present, after continued playing time? I don't have a hard timeline in which I periodically retest the capacitors. But, I will play normal audio, on a daily basis, and then recheck the speaker several times, with my go to songs, in the first few weeks after installing the new caps. If it seems the caps are still improving, after this, I'll continue to play them with background audio, and recheck. If I notice no more improvement, and I still hear issues, I'll usually add bypass film & foil caps. The bypass caps seem to help eliminate any lingering flaws that I still hear. Though, I'm still considering replacing the Clarity's. They haven't blown me away.
 
Caps form when they have DC applied to them, such as in a power supply filter. Is the same true for AC signals such as music? "Forming" as I understand it means the electrolyte distributes itself to plus and minus (voltage) sides of the capacitor. But they will only do that when a DC voltage is applied. Since sound is AC, polarity is actually flipping back and forth constantly, so there really is no 'forming' taking place. Unless I don't quite understand how it works, which is very possible.
Electrolytic caps used in speaker crossovers are non-polarised, but they still need to be formed -- i.e., have a voltage applied to the terminals to cause formation of a dielectric oxide on the anode. A non-polarised cap is essentially two polarised electrolytic caps wired in series, -ve terminal to -ve terminal, so one acts (or undergoes forming, initially) as a capacitor whilst the other conducts. Per the wikipedia article on electrolytic capacitors in the section on bipolar caps, "On the alternate halves of the AC cycles, one of the oxides on the foil acts as a blocking dielectric, preventing reverse current from damaging the electrolyte of the other one."
 
Things I've taken away from re-capping, replacing the main filters in an amp makes the biggest difference. recapping reduces boomey mid bass and makes the lower bass a lot more powerful so instead of thooming and booming you get kicks. I've also noticed it reduces the grainyness of the sound, before re-capping my system sounded muffled and fuzzy, especially backing vocals and quieter insturments, after the re-cap they sounded a clear as day and it certainly brightened up the sound. So I suppose if you like a warm fuzzy sound, maybe re-capping isn't for you, if you prefer clear and bright re-capping will probably be to your taste. No matter what your taste or belief, do what your ears say is right. Both speakers and amp re-capped. Tested both with headphones and speakers.
 
You are saying that girls whispering in my ear will burn in stuff faster than heavy death metal? I guess.

YES! now you understand, I heartily recommend Gilli Smyth of GONG fame, the original Space Whisper Goddess...

GONGGGG17.jpg
 
The best example I had of caps forming is in my KEF 104.2's. I spent a lot buying them - then travelled about 1500k's to collect them, set them up on my sansui AU999 and ran them and

Meh....

.........very middy, no bass, shrill.

Honestly after a couple of hours playing I could actually hear the sound changing. Much warmer, more bass, less shouty, sweeter highs.

I recap all my audio gear anyway. For safety reasons and also as it gives me something to do. Plus, a lot of the time, I am pretty sure there are also audio benefits.
 
Electrolytic caps used in speaker crossovers are non-polarised, but they still need to be formed -- i.e., have a voltage applied to the terminals to cause formation of a dielectric oxide on the anode. A non-polarised cap is essentially two polarised electrolytic caps wired in series, -ve terminal to -ve terminal, so one acts (or undergoes forming, initially) as a capacitor whilst the other conducts. Per the wikipedia article on electrolytic capacitors in the section on bipolar caps, "On the alternate halves of the AC cycles, one of the oxides on the foil acts as a blocking dielectric, preventing reverse current from damaging the electrolyte of the other one."

I will take your word for it on this, i.e. that there is 'forming' even though there is no DC voltage applied.
 
It depends on the speaker.

Cheaper speakers tend to cut corners on crossover components. If it's a speaker with potential, I have torn out the cheap sino electrolytics and films for something better. In those instances, it always results in an improvement. Sometimes, dramatically so.

On a pair of beat-up Heresys that already needed service, I rebuilt the the x-overs with some Mundorfs and also redid the internal wiring to something better, to see how far it could be taken, if at all. After a nice settling in, it played almost holographically, and some of the previous edge of the HF horns was gone. An excellent improvement. I decided to keep them.

But I would never touch the original oilers on a vintage K-horn or alter the enormous x-over network on my big Thiels, as they are hard to better even with modern updates.
 
If you like pre-recapped sound better, it's probably because you naturally prefer the sound characteristics of an un-recapped speaker or amplifier. To me, an un-recapped unit tends to sound what I would describe as wooly and rolled-off, but some describe that as warmth and prefer it.

Also, note that your appreciation of sound may be influenced by mood and mindset -- is it possible that recapping the units has, at some deep emotional level, left you feeling that the units are no longer original?

If so, that may be influencing your appreciation of their sound.

Correct. Re-capped gear does not suit the OP's personal preference. No generalization can be made from one listener's result.
 
Are my the only one that feels that recapping speakers that are working properly ruins the sound? I have a pair of AR3a's that were sounding wonderful. I read how recapping will make them even better. Used Clarity cap for the highs and whatever Parts Express was selling in the correct value for the other two caps. The speakers have lost some of their magic. The old caps were still within tolerance values and I am going to put the old ones back. I have given many hours for "break in". I also have a pair of AR2ax that have original caps and bought a pair that were recapped. The originals sound noticeably better. I also bought a pair of recapped KLH Model 12 on Ebay and thought they sounded like crap. Recapped a Sherwood S5500 tube amp. It totally ruined it. In fact, I have yet to hear a recapped component or speaker (that was working normally) that sounded better after the recap or sounded better when A/B comparing to an unrestored working unit. My MC60 monoblocks and Mac preamp are recapped and sound good but i've never heard unrestored ones and wonder if I'd like them better.


yea... mix matching caps is not the best way to go about it... Ask how I know... :)

So Clarity caps are pretty good caps... How did you configure them? Did you do any bypass caps? Any ran in parallel? What tolerance range of caps?

Did you mix Dayton caps and clarity? If so that's the issue...
 
Are my the only one that feels that recapping speakers that are working properly ruins the sound? I have a pair of AR3a's that were sounding wonderful. I read how recapping will make them even better. Used Clarity cap for the highs and whatever Parts Express was selling in the correct value for the other two caps. The speakers have lost some of their magic. The old caps were still within tolerance values and I am going to put the old ones back. I have given many hours for "break in". I also have a pair of AR2ax that have original caps and bought a pair that were recapped. The originals sound noticeably better. I also bought a pair of recapped KLH Model 12 on Ebay and thought they sounded like crap. Recapped a Sherwood S5500 tube amp. It totally ruined it. In fact, I have yet to hear a recapped component or speaker (that was working normally) that sounded better after the recap or sounded better when A/B comparing to an unrestored working unit. My MC60 monoblocks and Mac preamp are recapped and sound good but i've never heard unrestored ones and wonder if I'd like them better.


how do you know the original caps were were in value? did you test them?
 
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