realistic expectations rant for cost of recap.

Discussion in 'Pioneer Audio' started by Gavijo70, Apr 13, 2018.

  1. hugo454

    hugo454 Gold Member Subscriber

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    at least you can avoid what happened to me;
    I left my Dynaco 400 w/meters with Beta electronics in North Miami, along with ALL the parts necessary for a restoration.
    16 months now and no word from Roy the owner.
    I have pretty much written it off as a loss at this point.
    emails and voicemail go unanswered.
    be careful with whom you leave your gear.
     
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  2. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    Correct
    Well not really a case of not being able to afford a restoration or repair. More of a case if the units actually worth putting more money into it or not.

    For people that do the work themselves and like to as a hobby, time is nothing and doesn't cost anything.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
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  3. spark1

    spark1 Well-Known Member

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    980
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    Just pointing out that if rent in your area is more than what 3 techs in this area generate on an hourly basis, multiplied by 150 hours per month per tech, then revenues per hour would need to be quite a bit more than $125.

    Not arguing that business expenses in your area are not significantly higher...I am sure they are, as the business I owned had an office in Burlingame...and that was almost 8 years ago.
     
  4. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    Sorry to hear that but this stuff happens all the time.
     
  5. spark1

    spark1 Well-Known Member

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    In any case, I think we can all agree that the cost of a full restoration will usually demand an investment greater than the market value of the unit. I pointed that out early in this thread. It only makes sense if the owner really intends to keep the unit over the long run...and even then, it may make more sense to do only the work that can significantly reduce the chances of an expensive failure, or just waiting until/if there are problems and then fixing them as they occur.

    But for someone who is really committed to a particular unit and wants it to sound as much like it did when new as possible, restorations can make sense even if not economically justified.

    EDIT: And of course, due diligence is required before giving your component to someone for repair. This would be quite a bit more than just asking them if they can do the work.
     
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  6. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    And you should see what's going on around here now. I live in San Mateo and the shop is in the city. The cost of living and working here is doubling over those past 8 years. A low cost 3 bedroom home like I'm living in 8 years ago $450.000- $550,000 are now going for $900,000- $1.2 million. The same house to rent 8 years ago $1700- $2000 if you can find one to rent today $4500- $6000 a month.
     

     

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  7. rcs16

    rcs16 Super Member

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    People are throwing them out and they cost them nothing to buy.
    As an example my friend threw out his his JVC R-X60, after it dried out, I fixed it, PITA to fix, crammed, but for the time I put into it, I can not even sell it for what my time is worth = economics.
    In the old days, just having to buying the service manual was enough to make you want to throw them out. Ever tried to fix one without a schematic/service manual, it is like taking your car engine into the mechanic in a box of parts.
     
  8. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow I gotta get me a new title

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    And for some customers, they want the unit to look new. I spent 7 hours cleaning a Sony ST-5130 one time. It came out looking like new, walnut cabinet and all.

    I understand 4-2-7 saying just move on as he is not silver vintage guy, someone consumed with the McIntosh right now and well new stuff is nice, it just costs a lot. That is why many here love the old stuff.

    Getting someone to rebuild a unit does cost as much as the unit is worth except for some monster receivers and other collectibles for those that have to have that gear. For the money, one could buy a nice newer unit and get decades ahead in sound quality but then that old Stereo Lust® will not be satisfied. Folks can buy an SX-1250 and once rebuilt and done right can get 3K plus on the bay, same with the Marantz 4400 but the money maker in the Marantz is the 2270. Not terrible to buy, not impossible to rebuild and selling for Marantz Tax prices, Cha-ching if you do the work yourself.

    Paying people to do this work...is expensive and you did not pay them for all of their time. Many can't make good money doing the work because folks just won't pay for it. We have all seen hours documented and the pay per hour is 10 bucks all said and done. If you want rebuilt vintage electronics they are not going to be cheap but they will be way less than current top models.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
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  9. spark1

    spark1 Well-Known Member

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    This whole discussion made me dig into the data I had from the business valuation work I did on the local repair shop. Because of the way that the owner kept the books, his "bench fee" revenues were not in the number I quoted earlier. Including this revenue takes his revenue per employee hour to almost $60. The only thing not included in this number is parts revenue..which works out to around $6 per hour (remember, this is a repair shop, not a restoration shop).
     
  10. 4-2-7

    4-2-7 Smart Ass Sponsor Subscriber

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    Actually I'm a black face vintage guy:D really a Sansui fan boy and had receives that I no longer have. I'v sold other things as well. I still have some rack mount stuff a AU & TU 717 and the amp will not come out of protection. It's in mint shape, paid $400 for it 5 years ago but it's not worth restoring at around $800 $1000. Even if I had it just repaired at around $200 I'd be going in the hole. Just sold the last of all my Sui speakers and two 5050 r2r, My BA-F1 & CA-F1 I paid way to much for but it still works and have. I do have better equipment now and it sounds better also, it's just what it is.

    But people looking at my sig think I never been where they are or enjoy and want or need to use. We all find a place we want to go, some collect and pile it in the garage to fix some day. Some like old gear so they can fix it themselves. Some have to buy it because it's what they can afford. But it all tends to need repair and constant attention to keep it working.
    But it always amazes me when people left to these choices look at others who might have expensive and or new TOTL gear, as never being a part of the used (Vintage) lower end crowd. The fact is the ones with some top gear started somewhere, they have been there before with experience of it. Their choice was just to save and get better equipment so when they want to listen to music it actually works when they press the power button.
     
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  11. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow I gotta get me a new title

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    Well I know a few that buy so they can repair it. Youngest guy in our audio group has the oldest gear but he knows tubes and can fix em easily and on the cheap.

    I don't have a lot of old gear that has broken down. Sure a few pieces but many things I go through, I buy because they will work...Crown gear for example. A lot of this old gear once repaired is ready to go, not needing any more work for at least a decade (that is how long some of these units have been working since a major refresh) and way longer as folks continue to use them. I don't see the need for constant attention on a unit that was refreshed properly.

    It is a choice folks have to make on where to put the funds allotted to this hobby. You have talked about buying into some of the newer gear and there are some here that go that way, but like you say there are many reasons to select the path each has chosen to follow with audio gear in general.
     

     

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  12. Bob

    Bob AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    if the OP's gear is that important, nostalgia aside, then cost shouldn't be a problem since the gear will
    be worth more fixed AND in the future. and again I repeat that not all things are about the money.

    changing make or buy to repair or buy, $2K invested may mean the unit sells for 5-10K in the future
    when the flippers really go crazy.

    or sell it now and buy one of today's receivers. Outlaw? others? and follow the flippers who simply flip
    at the current market rate for the receiver.

    or find someone here on AK who is no doubt, reputable, honest, and will get the job done. way too many
    newbies show up and say they found "Slick" who butchered a unique one-of-a-kind receiver and it cost
    $800.

    one alternative, though not an option to the OP, is to DIY.

    I don't have my first car, watch, TV, LP, suit, shoes, house, coffee cup, etc. so keeping something
    way past expiration is a step towards dying with said nostalgic object gripped by cold dead hands.
    although my oldest audio piece is now almost 40 years old BUT it's working and WILL be sold after
    it fails and I repair it. life is very short but I understand why others keep stuff.
     
  13. zebulon1

    zebulon1 Getting behind on work. I need help? Subscriber

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    Well.
    If you live near Las Vegas or can get here - I'll fix it. Free. No kidding
    Anything to end this thread.
     
  14. spark1

    spark1 Well-Known Member

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    Or, just dont read it. But then you wouldn't get that tingly sense of superiority from being above all this pedestrian commentary.
     
  15. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Super Member

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    Sounds like a road trip/ vacation for the OP. Ship it, then when done fly to Vegas have a great time, pack it for shipment or drag it home with ya. It'll cost more but you get an adventure to boot!
     
  16. zebulon1

    zebulon1 Getting behind on work. I need help? Subscriber

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    It's not that, just hashed it out several times before in threads.
     

     

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  17. Blue Shadow

    Blue Shadow I gotta get me a new title

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    zeb has done a good bit for the community. He forced me to get an R-1120 receiver parts carcass and it has been very helpful getting my units up and running right. Seems ending this thread is a goal of his and the OP might think about that offer. Some places have dirt cheap flights to Las Vegas, subsidized by the casinos to bring folks in to give their money away.
     
  18. Awesomeaudio

    Awesomeaudio AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Hallelujah brother !
    Nice to have you back mate :thumbsup:
     
  19. danrclem

    danrclem AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Dang! If I had know that griping about restoration cost would get me a free one I'd have started one before this one. :D

    To the OP. It is what it is. I really don't know what restoration prices run these days or if the quotes you received are out of line but complaining will not make the price go down. I'm not trying to be hateful but you have the choice of having it done or not. You can shop around and probably find a cheaper price but make sure that the tech is reliable. I have an SX-1980 that needs restored but I know it's going to be expensive so I have to wait until I have the available funds or learn how to do it myself.
     
  20. rcs16

    rcs16 Super Member

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    In the mean time practice on something less expensive to improve your skills to see if you are up to the task.
    trying to put me out of business :)
     

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