Record Changer in Admiral Console Stereo Slow...

[IowaFightFan]

I've got an Admiral Model # 413 tube stereo. I've gotten it refurbished enough to play again. The issue I'm having is the record Changer won't seem to keep 33 1/3 RPM.

When I started, it didn't work at all. I throughly cleaned it, replaced motor bushings (they fell apart), lubricated everything that needed it and reinstalled. It was working, but only at about 30-31 RPM.

This morning, I took it out, cleaned everything again, lubed it, reinstalled. It was right at 33 - 33.3 RPM, right in the sweet spot. I played 3-4 records on it, now it's about 1 RPM slower again.

Any ideas?

 

[IowaFightFan]

The old grease, especially on the spindle bearing, had hardened. It was all cleaned off completely and new grease/oil used. The spindle bearing, once cleaned, spun freely and all three balls roll as they should.

 

[brud]

I would allow the bearings and the motor spindle time to re- seat . Run the player for x 3 , 8hr sessions and then recheck the speed .
?? Is there a strobe adjustment , if so after 3 days adjust for 33.3

? is it idler wheel or belt driven machine , if belt would put in a new one .

The other important “technical” process is to tap the motor with a hammer after reseating the bearings - this helps also reseat these . May be difficult now ! Obviously do this with the power turned off to console

A great turntable speed checker is RPM from app store !

Let’s know how you go !

 

[larryderouin]

Idler Drive wheel could very well be either worn or dirty, along with the inside of the platter where the wheel runs. clean both with HOT WATER and DAWN Dishwashing liquid, and wipe dry with paper towels. DO NOT TOUCH either the inside of the platter or the edges of the wheel with BARE FINGERS. Body oils will affect speed. Add a drop of Zoom Turbine oil to the idler bushing. You can optionally use CRC QD CONTACT CLEANER to rinse off the platter. It's non Residue and won't hurt the finish, but it'll leave the platter CLEAN. Also check the retainer spring on the arm for the idler. It may be stretched and not holding the idler to the drive spindle on the motor and the platter.

Replacement wheels can be had from GARY at VoiceofMusic.com, (depending on the wheel, you may have to send in the old one as a core). Conversely you can send to Terry's Rubber Rollers and he can rebuild it with new rubber.

 

[gadget73]

+1 on checking idler condition. If this is a two-step idler, changing the diameter of either step will affect speed. Is this a VM changer?

 

[IowaFightFan]

Idler Drive wheel could very well be either worn or dirty, along with the inside of the platter where the wheel runs. clean both with HOT WATER and DAWN Dishwashing liquid, and wipe dry with paper towels. DO NOT TOUCH either the inside of the platter or the edges of the wheel with BARE FINGERS. Body oils will affect speed. Add a drop of Zoom Turbine oil to the idler bushing. You can optionally use CRC QD CONTACT CLEANER to rinse off the platter. It's non Residue and won't hurt the finish, but it'll leave the platter CLEAN. Also check the retainer spring on the arm for the idler. It may be stretched and not holding the idler to the drive spindle on the motor and the platter.

Replacement wheels can be had from GARY at VoiceofMusic.com, (depending on the wheel, you may have to send in the old one as a core). Conversely you can send to Terry's Rubber Rollers and he can rebuild it with new rubber.

Thank you for the information. The idler appears to be in good condition. The rubber is still soft and I could not see any flat spots on the OD of it. I did not clean it with the method you suggested though, so that will certainly give me something to try. I had cleaned the inside of the platter with alcohol and then wiped dry. I removed the idler and cleaned the brass bushing it's mounted on, as well as the idler shaft. I lubricated the shaft with a drop of Super Lube.

My changer is not a VM changer, as far as I can tell. It is a 4-speed (16, 33, 45 & 78) so it has a second shaft that is run by a small belt between it and the motor shaft. When I first got it, that second shaft was frozen solid. I had to disassemble and clean throughly. I also lubricated it with a drop of Super Lube.

The weird thing is, yesterday when I reinstalled the changer, the speed was almost perfect. After running a while, it's now about 1 - 1.5 RPM slow. I just don't understand how it was on speed at first, then lost it again.

 

[gadget73]

did you oil the motor bearings when it was apart?

 

[IowaFightFan]

did you oil the motor bearings when it was apart?

Yes. I removed the 4 bolts holding the motor together, pulled the bottom portion off, cleaned out the lower bearing (it was slightly dirty) and put a drop of lubrication into the lower bearing. I've read over lubricating the motor bearings can slow it down, so I was careful to use only 1 drop of oil, which looked to be plenty.

The upper bearing really isn't accessible, so I cleaned all around it and put a drop of oil on the shaft itself, in hopes it would run down and lubricate the bearing.

 

[IowaFightFan]

Gary from Voice of Music advised me to test the phono wheel by starting up the changer and trying to stop the platter with my hand. If it's very easily stopped, it's likely the wheel is slipping.

I'm going to try this at lunch .

 

[gadget73]

yeah thats about all I do with them too. Some of them have felt packing around the bearing, those I try to get a drop of oil into the packing as well.

There was a recent discussion in the tape forum about methods of reviving rubber. A mixture of xylene or toluene and wintergreen oil was suggested. No personal experience, but the idea is the solvent carries the wintergreen oil in, and thats what actually revives the rubber. Its on my list of tricks to try next time I have a slippy idler wheel.

 

[larryderouin]

Clean and lube the upper motor bushing. It WILL bind slightly if dirty.

 

[orthophonic]

That changer is an Admiral Ensign made by Admiral.

Besides the above advice, it is imperative to change that small belt, that is what kept causing the slowdowns on the ones I have. Gary should have those.

 

[IowaFightFan]

This is the phono idler area.

 

[IowaFightFan]

That changer is an Admiral Ensign made by Admiral.

Besides the above advice, it is imperative to change that small belt, that is what kept causing the slowdowns on the ones I have. Gary should have those.

Thank you. I just ordered 2 from Gary, one to keep as a spare. I took the belt off and it looked a little "glazed" on the inside, and upon closer inspection has a few very small cracks. It definitely needs replaced.

 

[gadget73]

interesting, not a lot of things used a hybrid drive like that. I also didn't know Admiral made their own changers.

 

[orthophonic]

Quite a few changers used those small belts in 1949, 50,51 and 52. VM, Garrard, GE, Philco, RCA, Crescent (Sears Silvertone), Admiral and Erwood come to mind. It was basically a quick modification of 78 rpm only changers
to enable the 33 and 45 speeds. The belt is attached to the 78 pulley and drives the added 33 and 45 step pulley. Without the belt, the 78 speed will generally work fine, but you will have no 33 or 45 speed or
in the case of a stretched bad belt, those two speeds will be off.

 

[IowaFightFan]

Quite a few changers used those small belts in 1949, 50,51 and 52. VM, Garrard, GE, Philco, RCA, Crescent (Sears Silvertone), Admiral and Erwood come to mind. It was basically a quick modification of 78 rpm only changers
to enable the 33 and 45 speeds. The belt is attached to the 78 pulley and drives the added 33 and 45 step pulley. Without the belt, the 78 speed will generally work fine, but you will have no 33 or 45 speed or
in the case of a stretched bad belt, those two speeds will be off.

I am hoping the belt resolves this, but what worries me is that all speeds are off a little bit, including the 78 speed, which shouldn't be affected by that small belt. The 78 speed is off by 1-1.5 RPM as well.

 

[gadget73]

How are you measuring the speed? It doesn't make a lot of sense that it would be the same number of rpm off at each speed. It should be the same % off if its a mechanical problem since all this is done with pulley ratios.

 

[IowaFightFan]

I'm using the RPM Calculator app on Android.

 

[gadget73]

ever try it with a strobe disc? Just curious how accurate those apps are. Never tried it myself