Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

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I find that interesting too. Did Wikipedia oversimplify it again in their discussion of stereo vinyl records when they state:
"In this system, each of two stereo channels is carried independently by a separate groove wall, each wall face moving at 45 degrees to the plane of the record surface (hence the system's name) in correspondence with the signal level of that channel. By convention, the inner wall carries the left-hand channel and the outer wall carries the right-hand channel."
 
I always wondered since the needle can't move one way for the Rt. without moving the same way for the Lt.
Anyway, I tried looking at the channel ID tracks of my test record and I really couldn't tell. I was using a crappy 1000x usb microscope and I also looked at it with a 30x loupe.
 
I find that interesting too. Did Wikipedia oversimplify it again in their discussion of stereo vinyl records when they state:
"In this system, each of two stereo channels is carried independently by a separate groove wall, each wall face moving at 45 degrees to the plane of the record surface (hence the system's name) in correspondence with the signal level of that channel. By convention, the inner wall carries the left-hand channel and the outer wall carries the right-hand channel."
No, they didn't oversimplify it. This is the way the stereo groove was cut after the earlier vertical-lateral modulation approach proved problematic owing to the fact that the vertical modulation wears faster than the lateral one. It's also the reason why one channel is phase inverted to ensure that the center channel (mono) signal is lateral, which also provides for backwards compatibility with mono records.

It think the confusion relates to that last point; with mono being cut laterally, out-of-phase modulation (L minus R, or the difference 'stereo' signal) is therefore vertical. It's a different way of thinking about how the L/R info is cut into the groove.
 
Thank you very much for your inputs. I need to dig into this a bit more. I will thoroughly check my setup again and maybe try a different cartridge to start ruling things out.

On a different note, the images below are from two different brand new sealed records that I just purchased. Any idea what these white residues (not the dust particles) might be and how you get rid of them?


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I see the 'aurora borealis' as in the top image all the time. It never washes off; but never seems to have any audible effect, either. I'd be interested if anyone can explain it. The lower image is unfamiliar.
 
Thanks you for the response. I see the contamination pattern similar to the lower picture in used records quite often. I always assumed that it was due to poor care, until I saw it in this sealed record. I have not been able to successfully remove it.
 
Thanks you for the response. I see the contamination pattern similar to the lower picture in used records quite often. I always assumed that it was due to poor care, until I saw it in this sealed record. I have not been able to successfully remove it.

Does it cause any surface noise?
 
A question about the Hepastat 256 32 oz bottle. Does anyone have experience with the bottle itself? I got the cap off and seen that it has the dilution system top. Before I tear it up, how do you remove this? I was able to get some product out, enough to use in the Spin Clean.

BTW, the bottle recommends 1/2 oz Hepastat to a gallon (128 oz) water which equals approx 15 ml Hepastat to 3781 ml water. For the 24 oz Spin Clean tank, I used a hair under 3 ml of Hepastat.
 
Can you exchange it for another copy?
I probably could. But, I have seen this on other records too. My interest, from record cleaning perspective, is to figure out what it is and how to remove it.

BTW, I am interested in digitizing/ripping some of my albums for portability reasons. This discussion does not belong to this thread, but, does anyone know of a thread/discussion on audiophile ways of digitizing your albums?
 
A question about the Hepastat 256 32 oz bottle. Does anyone have experience with the bottle itself? I got the cap off and seen that it has the dilution system top. Before I tear it up, how do you remove this? I was able to get some product out, enough to use in the Spin Clean.

BTW, the bottle recommends 1/2 oz Hepastat to a gallon (128 oz) water which equals approx 15 ml Hepastat to 3781 ml water. For the 24 oz Spin Clean tank, I used a hair under 3 ml of Hepastat.

You just pull the top out. I've mentioned this here several times, but the reason they call these solutions "256" is because that is the dilution factor for general cleaning (1 oz per gallon = 1:256. eg, the concentrate is 256X). We generally use it at 1:1000 dilution when combining it with a non-ionic detergent (e.g. Triton X100) for record cleaning.
 
We generally use it at 1:1000 dilution when combining it with a non-ionic detergent (e.g. Triton X100) for record cleaning.
Just a thought: if these quats are surfactants to begin with, why couldn't they be used in a higher concentration instead of mixing them with others? Seems to me the antistatic effect would be greater, even if the cleaning isn't as thorough.

Perhaps a solution of straight quats could be used as an antistatic treatment alone on an already cleaned but untreated record?
 
New to this whole scene, but it sounds promising. I need to gather up the chemicals and start mixing. I'm looking at going two directions -- either tracking down hepastat 256 (or clone) and use that with a distilled water/IPA mixture on it's own. Or going with Triton X-100+IPA+distilled water+quat. It sounds like either will work, and work well. Is one option better than the other or should I just take a path of least resistance?

Finally, would quat-based dish sanitizer tablets such as Steramine (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000W09SF6/) work as a quat source for my latter option?

Thanks!
 
You just pull the top out. I've mentioned this here several times, but the reason they call these solutions "256" is because that is the dilution factor for general cleaning (1 oz per gallon = 1:256. eg, the concentrate is 256X). We generally use it at 1:1000 dilution when combining it with a non-ionic detergent (e.g. Triton X100) for record cleaning.

Thanks - I just haven't read all of the 14xx posts. :)
 
Hepastat works well on it's own....I've done the experiment. Along with the quats, it does contain a non-ionic detergent and ethanol, albeit at lower concentrations. As a general rule, I don't like to introduce too many charged molecules into systems. Hence, I use mostly non-ionic detergent for cleaning with a smaller amount (10- to 100-fold less) of positively charged quats to control static and neutralize what is on the record surface. Does it matter? Not really, according to the Hepastat alone tests where there were no ill effects. I do know that there can be synergy when using surfactants of differing properties. You get mixed micelles that can solubilize things better that homo-micelles might. With all the surfactants in the Hepastat/Triton mix with the variety of head and tail structures, all the bases are pretty much covered.
And yes, the quat mix can be used as an antistat by itself. That is exactly what the commercial antistat treatments and sprays consist of. Many patents based on this, beginning in the 1930's with Dupont, continuing in the 60's with Bayer and Ciba, and in the 70's with BASF and DOW, through the 80's with Xerox and PPG. I could post a bunch of these if folks are interested. Controlling static has been a problem in industry since the beginning and great corporate scientists have solved the problem for us. We simply have to adapt it to our use, as it has also plagued many record collectors for no reason other than our own ignorance.
Hence, a 1:5000 to 1:10,000 dilution of Hepastat in 5% IPA put into a spray bottle makes a great antistat treatment. It also lubricates the record surface and prevents microbial growth. It isn't that great for cleaning at this concentration as it will be below the critical micelle concentration.
 
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Hepastat works well on it's own....I've done the experiment.....<snip>
And yes, the quat mix can be used as an antistat by itself. That is exactly what the commercial antistat sprays consist of. Many patents based on this, beginning in the 1930's with Dupont, continuing in the 60's with Bayer and Ciba, and in the 70's with BASF and DOW, through the 80's with Xerox and PPG. I could post a bunch of these if folks are interested.

Great info, thanks. I actually have read all the posts in this thread. But in such a compressed time frame my head is spinning a little bit. ;-)

So in terms of expediency and simplification, I think I might just grab the Hepastat and give it a whirl. The fewer needed chemicals the better (unless it turns out my media library friends have a ready-source for Tergitol or Triton I can try out. BTW, I also have a small spray bottle of the premixed ACL Staticide (http://www.qsource.com/download/acl/20012003 SDS_0517.pdf). I've been using it sparingly as a damp wipe on some records and it seems to help, but I'm thinking that it should be more diluted, but used more generously, too. If you have any thoughts on dilution levels for antistat spray (edit: for Staticide, specifically, since it's already ~1:200 quat and IPA ) I'd love to hear them.

Cheers!
 
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