Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

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So, how does the Virex II perform compared to the Hepastat 256 that I think you also tried? Any difference between the two for records (or household cleaning for that matter -- lord knows we'll have enough of it to spread around!). Now that I've started looking I'm finding these quats everywhere and instead of reinventing the wheel, I think I'm just going to grab the Virex II or Hepastat and call it done!

I can't say there is any difference between the Hepastat and the Virex II for record cleaning. Both help with static for the first three or four plays then it seems the action of removing and inserting the record into the sleeve (MFSL in my case) causes some static. I still mist my velvet/carbon fiber brush with a really weak dilution of Hepastat and distilled water before each play and it is surprising how much dust is on the brush after about 10 clean records. We are using our AC now so maybe that accounts for the dust on the records. The misted brush takes care of static on the record for that one play.

The Virex II smells a little nicer to me than the Hepastat but neither are objectionable. We took a Hepastat mix in a spray bottle on board a cruise ship to clean up surfaces in our cabin but we still both got sick so I can't say if it helped or not. Maybe the lesson learned is I'm not all that thrilled with traveling by cruise ship given how easy it is to transmit "bugs" in confined quarters. These quat cleaners do a good job controlling mold/mildew in the shower. Just spray it on and let it soak for a bit, scrub lightly, then rinse. I don't use the Virex as a primary cleaner but a supplement on commonly touched surfaces when one of us has a cold or other ailment. I have a lifetime supply to be sure.
 
I can't say there is any difference between the Hepastat and the Virex II for record cleaning. Both help with static for the first three or four plays then it seems the action of removing and inserting the record into the sleeve (MFSL in my case) causes some static. I still mist my velvet/carbon fiber brush with a really weak dilution of Hepastat and distilled water before each play and it is surprising how much dust is on the brush after about 10 clean records. We are using our AC now so maybe that accounts for the dust on the records. The misted brush takes care of static on the record for that one play.

The Virex II smells a little nicer to me than the Hepastat but neither are objectionable. We took a Hepastat mix in a spray bottle on board a cruise ship to clean up surfaces in our cabin but we still both got sick so I can't say if it helped or not. Maybe the lesson learned is I'm not all that thrilled with traveling by cruise ship given how easy it is to transmit "bugs" in confined quarters. These quat cleaners do a good job controlling mold/mildew in the shower. Just spray it on and let it soak for a bit, scrub lightly, then rinse. I don't use the Virex as a primary cleaner but a supplement on commonly touched surfaces when one of us has a cold or other ailment. I have a lifetime supply to be sure.

Great info, thanks. It sounds like whichever is cheaper/easier to obtain is the way to go. 2qts of Hepastat is about $26 shipped w/tax; 3 quarts of Virex II is about $29. Sounds like either is going to work fine and while the Virastat is cheaper per ounce, do I really need that extra quart? I pick one out of the hat and move on to actually cleaning the records!

PS - sorry about getting sick on the cruise. Ick.
 
This is an embarrassingly stupid question, but before I start mixing I need to ask. Following the recipes found on AK and other sources, I intend to include Hepastat at 0.10%. As Hepastat comes in a concentrated form (.5 oz makes 1 gallon), is the volume of Hepastat required for the record cleaning solution straight from the concentrate, or after it has been diluted?

FYI - the cleaning solution (Hepastat, Terg 3&9, iso alcohol, and distilled h2o) will be used in a 40kHz ultrasonic machine.

Thank you. This thread is a terrific source of info.
 
This is an embarrassingly stupid question, but before I start mixing I need to ask. Following the recipes found on AK and other sources, I intend to include Hepastat at 0.10%. As Hepastat comes in a concentrated form (.5 oz makes 1 gallon), is the volume of Hepastat required for the record cleaning solution straight from the concentrate, or after it has been diluted?

So the standard concentrate is 21.7% Quat (I say "standard" as they also sell so ready to use preparations at a lower concentration). So to get to 0.1%, you need to do a 1:217 dilution, which is about 4.6 mls per liter. I think this is strong IMHO, particularly for US cleaning (even for household cleaning you do a 1:256 dilution). I like doing a 1:2000 dilution so you end up about 0.01% and include a non-ionic detergent (e.g. Triton X100) at 0.05 to 0.1%.
 
I can't say there is any difference between the Hepastat and the Virex II for record cleaning. Both help with static for the first three or four plays then it seems the action of removing and inserting the record into the sleeve (MFSL in my case) causes some static.

This is very interesting. I wonder if there is some static being generated by your system or environment? I say this because I have not generally experienced this. When I first experimented with quats back in the early 1990's, one of the albums I treated was Mozart Symphonies Nos. 25,26,&27 with James Levine on Deutsche Gramophone (purchased new). Back then I was using Cyastat 609 as the quat antistat based on RCA's patent (US3960790). This album became one of several I have used over the years to test my systems anytime something is added, removed, or a new cart is set-up as it has both highly dynamic and very quiet passages and I know every note by heart. Hence it has been played many dozens of times (it's actually one I've been able to document groove wear as I have a 2-track 15 IPS tape copy of it I made in 1996). It has only received that one initial quat treatment in it's lifetime, yet I never have been able to measure any static charge on it's surface. I would bet any quat in the grooves has long since been worn away, but the grooves are only a percent of the surface area so I'm thinking there is enough charge around to maintain a conductive environment. Every time I get an album that appears to have static issues, the sleeve is problematic. I too, use a lot of Mofi sleeves and on occasions have detected static on new bags of them, but this is not typical. So I don't think the quat only lasts for a few plays...rather, I believe there is excess charge being introduced in some way in what you are describing. Maybe try using higher % quat or treat the sleeves and playing surface as a test? It's a mystery though as I have heard this before from others. Some have reported static generation by their idler turntables. I really can't wrap my brain around how this can be, but observations speak for themselves. I guess there will be situations where a single treatment is enough and others where frequent treatments are required. I sure would like to know how static is continuously being produced in the latter case.
 
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This is very interesting. I wonder if there is some static being generated by your system or environment? I say this because I have not generally experienced this.....I sure would like to know how static is continuously being produced in the latter case.

Me too! While I'm not exactly sure what effect static charge would have on the sound of record when played it certainly is annoying to have the static. I do notice the static when I lift the record off the turntable (most recently a Technics SP-25 but also my AR XB with a deer hide mat) so the idea the "system" is generating the static might be a place to look. I am certainly open to suggestions!
 
I can't say there is any difference between the Hepastat and the Virex II for record cleaning. Both help with static for the first three or four plays then it seems the action of removing and inserting the record into the sleeve (MFSL in my case) causes some static.
This has been my experience as well, but I'm using the 3mil HDPE sleeves which seem to generate some static. I was under the impression the paper in the MOFI sleeves was supposed to reduce or eliminate static buildup.
 
Maybe I need to look at the grounding of my system. Right now my tonearm cables, with a separate ground wire, got to my SUT, then tube phono pre, then to my preamp. The separate ground stops at the SUT. I never worried about this because I thought the L & R grounds were summed with the external ground wire. Maybe I need to add a ground between the SUT and the phono preamp?
 
You could, but I doubt it would make any difference. Both my setups are independently grounded to the preamp, yet I'm still experiencing the reduced effectiveness of the quats over time. On both decks the records are swept by a CF dust bug as the record plays; one's grounded and the other not....doesn't seem to make much difference either way.

I'm thinking of trying a dilute alcohol/water/quat solution applied to the vinyl via a Last applicator brush. Do this when the static starts to get out of hand. Don't know what the consequences would be after several applications.
 
You could, but I doubt it would make any difference. Both my setups are independently grounded to the preamp, yet I'm still experiencing the reduced effectiveness of the quats over time. On both decks the records are swept by a CF dust bug as the record plays; one's grounded and the other not....doesn't seem to make much difference either way.

I'm thinking of trying a dilute alcohol/water/quat solution applied to the vinyl via a Last applicator brush. Do this when the static starts to get out of hand. Don't know what the consequences would be after several applications.

Thanks for the insights on your experience grounding your gear. I have an LP Gear carbon fiber/velvet brush I use before every play and I mist it first with a very dilute mix of Hepastat and distilled water . I helps reduce static and the moisture helps get any dust that might have landed on the record. I have washed my turntable's mat before but maybe doing that with a mix with a higher concentration Hepastat/Virex II might help. I have some 1:256 in a spray bottle used for household cleaning that I will try.
 
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I have an LP Gear carbon fiber/velvet brush I use before every play and I mist it first with a very dilute mix of Hepastat and distilled water .
That's interesting. So, you're saying that even with a little treatment before each play you're still experiencing diminished static control after a few plays?

I'm beginning to think that an air ionizer situated near the TT is the only way to really break the static problem. I know a couple of guys that do it, but the air quality near the TT smells pretty toxic. :eek:
 
Not static related :)

Just wanted to pop in at the suggestion of Rushton about my experiences with US cleaning and using the Triton/Hep/Iso fluid.

The US bug was planted in my ear about a month or so ago. As a librarian, when I find out a little about something new, I end up deep diving into the topic, which is what I did with US cleaning. I read this entire thread, I read the mammoth thread on DIYaudio. The threads on Audiogon. Oh, and the thread on the VPI forum. I read independent articles and reviews. Basically, I drove myself crazy with US cleaning info. But I did it because if I were to invest the time and money, I wanted to do it right. So what did I do?

Basically, I ended up following Rushton's setup and procedure. Bought myself a US tank (I really wanted to go 60mhz but the price difference was just too great for what I came to understand were perhaps negligible results). Then I bought the VinylStack only with a modification. I read in one of the forums that if you are using a 40mhz tank, the recommended spacing be 1.5", so the kind folks over at VS helped me out with custom spacers and now I can clean 3 at a time with 1.5" spacing for 4 at a time with 1" spacing. Next came the Triton, Hepastat, and Iso fluid concoction. And thankfully I have a Whole Foods right down the street, so getting quality DI water is easy peasy and cheap. Oh, and I also rigged up a filtering system.

So, how is it working for me? Well, pretty pretty prettttty well. After a few beginner mishaps with fluids and stuff, I now have it down to a nice little system. I like to clean 12 records at a time which I can do in about an hour. The results have been nothing less than amazing. Visually, I can't imagine the records looking any cleaner. Sonically, the improvement is markedly better. Where there was once some background noise or odd click, now there is virtually nothing. The blacks are black if that makes sense. Things sound cleaner in every facet of the word.

I just want to thank everyone who has posted here and the other boards for giving advice, tips, and feedback to all of us who are lurking in the background :) These threads have proved to be extremely valuable and I hope to learn even more!
 
So, how is it working for me? Well, pretty pretty prettttty well
I wish my experience was the same. I found it was great on lightly soiled records, but scrubbing still does the best job on the tough ones, IME.

Might've been the GP 40kHz tank; apparently 60kHz and/or multiple variating frequencies is the cat's meow for vinyl. :rolleyes:
 
I have the 40kHz tank and the Vinyl Stack kit. I have had the same results as caseyjames (see above). Just about the only undesirable noises I hear now are from groove damage and/or scratches which US cleaning cannot fix. However, the pops and ticks from scratches are now less annoying because the other pops and ticks from stuff in the grooves is gone. It makes the light scratches on my VG or GD+ more listenable/acceptable to my ears. Groove damage sadly cannot be improved.
 
Um, this is going be embarrassing, I think. I now have my 64oz bottle of Hepastat 256. But i can't figure out how to work the bottle. Under the cap is another cap with two holes. That cap is spring loaded -- you push it down and it pops back. But it doesn't do anything. I was thinking it was a pump or a dosing mechanism, but it doesn't do anything. I can tilt the bottle and squeeze and nothing comes out. Do I need to pierce that two-hole inner lid (I took off the inner foil already)?

Seriously, this pretty embarrassing that I can't figure out how to work a cap for restroom cleaner. But I can't. Anyone willing to point me in the right direction?
 
Um, this is going be embarrassing, I think. I now have my 64oz bottle of Hepastat 256. But i can't figure out how to work the bottle. Under the cap is another cap with two holes. That cap is spring loaded -- you push it down and it pops back. But it doesn't do anything. I was thinking it was a pump or a dosing mechanism, but it doesn't do anything. I can tilt the bottle and squeeze and nothing comes out. Do I need to pierce that two-hole inner lid (I took off the inner foil already)?

Seriously, this pretty embarrassing that I can't figure out how to work a cap for restroom cleaner. But I can't. Anyone willing to point me in the right direction?

That dispenser mechanism is all connected to the plastic cap on the spout. I was able to pry it out with a screwdriver and the whole mechanism lifted out with the cap.
 
That dispenser mechanism is all connected to the plastic cap on the spout. I was able to pry it out with a screwdriver and the whole mechanism lifted out with the cap.

This is true, however, I have a CAUTION for anyone who tries this. Wear eye protection or a full-face mask or something.There's potential for disaster. I experienced it. I'll follow up with details later. But wanted to get this caution up here NOW.
 
A spiral-fluted countersink bit put two small holes in the gizmo. Works well to measure small amounts out easily.
 
This is true, however, I have a CAUTION for anyone who tries this. Wear eye protection or a full-face mask or something.There's potential for disaster. I experienced it. I'll follow up with details later. But wanted to get this caution up here NOW.
Thanks! Sorry for the late PM reply.
 
Update: This stuff is nasty and the bottle is DANGEROUS.

Like many here have done, I tried to pop out the inner lid as others have mentioned. But somehow caused a high-volume woosh of hepastat to the face as the thing popped out. Probably 8 oz directly to the face. Immediately ran to shower and rinsed, which likely saved my vision. Spent the night in the emergency room getting eyes flushed with some medieval torture device, followed by scoping and prodding and various vision tests -- they even called in the attending ophthalmologist to double check. Now I get to spend my vacation healing from burned eyes. Luckily, though I can still see! The burns shouldn't be permanent as long as I can avoid an infection.

While this stuff is safe compared to, say, bleach or tilex or scrubbing bubbles or whatever DIY solution you're using, it's still dangerous. It can blind you. Luckily not as fast as bleach, but it's a real danger. Anyone messing with the bottle in concentrate form should be wearing full face protection -- goggles are a good start, but I'm here to tell you it's pretty brutal getting it up your nose, too. I had been wearing safety glasses but I took them off "for a second" because they got a smudge on them. Don't do that. PROTECT YOUR EYES!

Side note: Coast Labs/Staples needs a better bottle design or instructions on the bottle or something. This thing is dangerous!
 
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