Record Cleaning: Developing the Best Possible Methods

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I made a bottle of the solution that has the following attributes: Distilled Water 88.62%, 91% IPA 11.21%, and Triton X-114 0.17%. I have a wand, made by hi*ball, to vacuum the solution off of the record. I use a record cleaning brush that I bought a long time ago to scrub the records.

A couple of questions:
1. When scrubbing the records I get a little foaming. Would that be considered normal?
2. After vacuuming the cleaning solution off I do a rinse. The rinse consists of straight distilled water that I squeegee over the surface of the record. After wiping the wand off I vacuum that DW off. Is this a sufficient rinse?

Any input would be appreciated.
 
I'm trying to make some concentrate using the following quantities:

400mL 91% Isopropyl Alcohol
14mL Hepastate 256
18mL Triton X-100
7g of Tetrasodium EDTA

The EDTA won't seem to dissolve no matter how much I shake and shake.

I was planning to add 45mL of this concentrate to 700mL of RO/DI water to make batches of general purpose cleaner for my vacuum style RCM.

Anyone else have this problem or have any ideas how to deal with it? Do I need to add some RO/DI to my concentrate to dissolve the EDTA and redo my math?

For what it's worth, I added 41 mL of water add the EDTA dissolved easily. THen I just upped my concentrate addition to 50mL to 700mL of RO/DI Water.
 
I made a bottle of the solution that has the following attributes: Distilled Water 88.62%, 91% IPA 11.21%, and Triton X-114 0.17%. I have a wand, made by hi*ball, to vacuum the solution off of the record. I use a record cleaning brush that I bought a long time ago to scrub the records.

A couple of questions:
1. When scrubbing the records I get a little foaming. Would that be considered normal?
2. After vacuuming the cleaning solution off I do a rinse. The rinse consists of straight distilled water that I squeegee over the surface of the record. After wiping the wand off I vacuum that DW off. Is this a sufficient rinse?

Any input would be appreciated.
Some foaming is to be expected. You are essentially using a light detergent solution. In my opinion, scrubbing the record is probably not necessary, unless there is some crud or liquid dried on the surface of the record, maybe. The main thing is to move the solution around so that it gets into the record grooves and soaks/ loosens the crud for vacuuming up. I vacuum the cleaning solution for two or three revolutions of the record and I do the same for the distilled water rinse. This works well for me.
 
I'm trying to make some concentrate using the following quantities:

400mL 91% Isopropyl Alcohol
14mL Hepastate 256
18mL Triton X-100
7g of Tetrasodium EDTA

The EDTA won't seem to dissolve no matter how much I shake and shake.

I was planning to add 45mL of this concentrate to 700mL of RO/DI water to make batches of general purpose cleaner for my vacuum style RCM.

Anyone else have this problem or have any ideas how to deal with it? Do I need to add some RO/DI to my concentrate to dissolve the EDTA and redo my math?


Yes, use some Distilled water to dissolve it. 91% isopropyl doesn't contain enough water to dissolve it properly? Heating the water will help.
 
Some foaming is to be expected. You are essentially using a light detergent solution. In my opinion, scrubbing the record is probably not necessary, unless there is some crud or liquid dried on the surface of the record, maybe. The main thing is to move the solution around so that it gets into the record grooves and soaks/ loosens the crud for vacuuming up. I vacuum the cleaning solution for two or three revolutions of the record and I do the same for the distilled water rinse. This works well for me.

Thanks for the feedback. These were used records and they needed an initial thorough cleaning. They sounded good afterwards so I guess what I was doing it s OK.
 
16Is of distilled with 6 drop of tergitol. Never used up I though I do have 99% (special order). If its good enough for the LOC its good enough for me. I vacuum btw
 
Can any of the chemists here tell me if this is a suitable Quat ??
Benzalkonium Chloride - BAC50
Technical grade

BAC50 is an aqueous solution of lauryl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride which complies with the U.S.N.F. monograph for benzalkonium chloride solution.
Typical properties:
  • Chain length distribution: 70% C12 + 30% C14
  • Appearance at 25C: Clear liquid
  • Colour: Pale yellow
  • Density at 20C: 0.98 g/cm3
  • Viscosity at 20C: 120 m.Pa.s
  • Active matter (mmw 354): 50.0 +/- 1.0
  • Free Amine (mmw 221): 0.50% max.
  • pH (5% sol): 8.0 +/- 1.0
  • composition: 50% active solution in water
  • Stability in application: Stable in the presence of light, over the pH range 4 - 10 and up to 120°C
Benzalkonium chloride, also known as alkyldimethylbenzylammonium chloride and ADBAC, is a mixture of alkylbenzyldimethylammonium chlorides of various even-numbered alkyl chain lengths. This product is a nitrogenous cationic surface active agent belonging to the quaternary ammonium group. It has three main categories of use; as a biocide, a cationic surfactant and phase trasfer agent in the chemical industry.

Benzalkonium chloride is readily soluble in ethanol, IPA and acetone. Although dissolution in water is slow, aqueous solutions are easier to handle and are preferred. Solutions should be neutral to slightly alkaline, with colour ranging from colourless to a pale yellow. Solutions foam profusely when shaken.
 
Can any of the chemists here tell me if this is a suitable Quat ??
Benzalkonium Chloride - BAC50

Yes, I've used it and it works great. It is a leading ingredient in some of the Scrubbing bubbles products, which I suspect is why folks have success with that product, though I don't like the other ingredients (and caustic pH) in those. If you can find it in pure form (not Lysol, Bactine, or other household product), by all means use it....it works well. It looks like your description is for a 50% solution....is the other 50% just water?
 
Yes
it's from a cosher lab supplies in the UK ..costs about $22 a liter including post and is diluted with lab grade water. They also supply EDTA and ISO so happy days :) (they say it takes forever to dissolve which is why they supply the 50% solution)
 
The ADBAC can be dissolved with a little IPA if that is in your mix. You can also heat the water a bit. A 50% solution is way better, but you should keep at room temp to avoid flaky precipitate. The EDTA is also way easier if it is also in solution. The dihydrate dissolves ok, but the straight acid must be titrated with NaOH to a neutral pH to dissolve. Hopefully the lab can help you with this.
 
I've ordered EDTA Na4 - Ethylene diamine tetraacetic acid Tetra Sodium Salt - rather than the straight acid .. was only a $1 more so hopefully I wont have to titrate :) .. but as my garage is starting to look like a chem lab .....
thanks for the tip about room temperature .. I keep the rest in my beer fridge so she doesn't complain.
 
After reading this thread I went and purchased my supplies. I had everything by the weekend and made a concentrate of
50ml RO/DI
30ml Hep 256
40ml Triton X-100
16g Tetrasodium EDTA

I then made a 1 liter solution using:
8ml concentrate
50ml ISO
942ml RO/DI

Used it on a few records, followed by an RO/DI rinse using my VPI 16.5 RCM and wow this stuff is the real deal. It easily cleaned some pretty dirty records and playback was much improved, hardly any pops or clicks and just a vastly better and easier cleaning solution than I had been using (DIY ISO and RO/DI).

I really want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread and worked out the issues to allow me to make the solution as easily as I did.

BTW I have a bunch of Pyrex beakers, a magnetic stir bar spinner, and pipettes on hand from other projects so the mix and measuring was very easy. EDTA mixed up with no problems with 16g into 50ml of RO/DI, left it on the magnetic spinner for about 5 minutes and the solution was perfectly mixed and clear.
 
Sorry yeah, Reverse Osmosis/Deionization. I have a pretty large Reef Tank so I have a Multi stage RO unit with two DI canisters at the end. So all my water is from that. rodi is pretty common term for the makeup water we use in the reef hobby.
 
....
Used it on a few records, followed by an RO/DI rinse using my VPI 16.5 RCM and wow this stuff is the real deal.
Congrats JBNY, glad things are working out well. Just a question, are you using the cleaning solution from inside your RCM reservoir or are you hand scrubbing with it, then using the RCM for water rinses?
Also, where did you come up with the amounts you are adding (seems like you could get by with way less of some components, especially EDTA).
 
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I bought an early press copy of Hunky Dory at the weekend at the knock down price of $15 because it was very crackly despite looking clean to the naked eye. I've cleaned once with my current mix of Triton and 5% ISO but is still quite crackly. I'm going to do again with an Enzyme soak and then clean again.

Creon is a medical human digestive enzyme replacement mix : these work best at ph8ish so I'm going to add some Reef Buffer from the local fish store in RODI water !! The buffer contains a lot of Boron I believe so I've not used yet until I obtained the EDTA which I hope will chelate any heavy metals left behind and then rewash in the standard Triton/ISO/Quat/EDTA mix suggested in the early posts.

I'll let you know if it fixes the crackles :)
 
I bought an early press copy of Hunky Dory at the weekend at the knock down price of $15 because it was very crackly despite looking clean to the naked eye. I've cleaned once with my current mix of Triton and 5% ISO but is still quite crackly. I'm going to do again with an Enzyme soak and then clean again.

Creon is a medical human digestive enzyme replacement mix : these work best at ph8ish so I'm going to add some Reef Buffer from the local fish store in RODI water !! The buffer contains a lot of Boron I believe so I've not used yet until I obtained the EDTA which I hope will chelate any heavy metals left behind and then rewash in the standard Triton/ISO/Quat/EDTA mix suggested in the early posts.

I'll let you know if it fixes the crackles :)
That's a reasonable approach, since some contaminants require breakdown. The longer the incubation with the enzyme mix the better...just don't let the surface dry as the digestive enzyme mixes have binders that become sticky. That said, some records just aren't fixable due to physical damage (usually previously played with a bad stylus or handled improperly). EDTA is a chelator for divalent cations like Mg, Ca and other metals with 2+ charge. Good luck!
 
I’m recanting my recommendation of concentration in a Klaudio US machine. Even at 1/4th and 1/8th concentrations, there’s too much residue left on the record (when air dried w/o a rinse step). Any suggestions as to the bare minimum ratio that would provide just enough surfactant to sheet the water, just enough Hepistat to deter any “growth” within the water, and facilitate an air (fan) dry w/o a residue?
 
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