Record cleaning- you're doing it wrong!

Discussion in 'Turntables' started by guest110, Nov 18, 2015.

  1. SuperDodge

    SuperDodge New Member

    Messages:
    9

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. SuperDodge

    SuperDodge New Member

    Messages:
    9
    I'm trying to make some concentrate using the following quantities:

    400mL 91% Isopropyl Alcohol
    14mL Hepastate 256
    18mL Triton X-100
    7g of Tetrasodium EDTA

    The EDTA won't seem to dissolve no matter how much I shake and shake.

    I was planning to add 45mL of this concentrate to 700mL of RO/DI water to make batches of general purpose cleaner for my vacuum style RCM.

    Anyone else have this problem or have any ideas how to deal with it? Do I need to add some RO/DI to my concentrate to dissolve the EDTA and redo my math?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2018
  3. ripblade

    ripblade Super Member

    Messages:
    2,718
    Location:
    Toronto
    I heated a small amount of the water in a microwave and dissolved the EDTA pellets in that. It was still a long effort, but I got there eventually.
     
    Grbluen and desertrat748 like this.
  4. punchback

    punchback AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Hamilton Ohio
    I made a bottle of the solution that has the following attributes: Distilled Water 88.62%, 91% IPA 11.21%, and Triton X-114 0.17%. I have a wand, made by hi*ball, to vacuum the solution off of the record. I use a record cleaning brush that I bought a long time ago to scrub the records.

    A couple of questions:
    1. When scrubbing the records I get a little foaming. Would that be considered normal?
    2. After vacuuming the cleaning solution off I do a rinse. The rinse consists of straight distilled water that I squeegee over the surface of the record. After wiping the wand off I vacuum that DW off. Is this a sufficient rinse?

    Any input would be appreciated.
     
  5. SuperDodge

    SuperDodge New Member

    Messages:
    9
    For what it's worth, I added 41 mL of water add the EDTA dissolved easily. THen I just upped my concentrate addition to 50mL to 700mL of RO/DI Water.
     
  6. Donal64

    Donal64 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    Ohio
    Some foaming is to be expected. You are essentially using a light detergent solution. In my opinion, scrubbing the record is probably not necessary, unless there is some crud or liquid dried on the surface of the record, maybe. The main thing is to move the solution around so that it gets into the record grooves and soaks/ loosens the crud for vacuuming up. I vacuum the cleaning solution for two or three revolutions of the record and I do the same for the distilled water rinse. This works well for me.
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  7. desertrat748

    desertrat748 Active Member

    Messages:
    324

    Yes, use some Distilled water to dissolve it. 91% isopropyl doesn't contain enough water to dissolve it properly? Heating the water will help.
     
  8. punchback

    punchback AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    303
    Location:
    Hamilton Ohio
    Thanks for the feedback. These were used records and they needed an initial thorough cleaning. They sounded good afterwards so I guess what I was doing it s OK.
     
  9. Hajidub

    Hajidub Chihuahua/Pug = Chug Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,056
    Location:
    Colorado Springs, CO
    16Is of distilled with 6 drop of tergitol. Never used up I though I do have 99% (special order). If its good enough for the LOC its good enough for me. I vacuum btw
     
  10. Pillpopper

    Pillpopper New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Can any of the chemists here tell me if this is a suitable Quat ??
    Benzalkonium Chloride - BAC50
    Technical grade

    BAC50 is an aqueous solution of lauryl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride which complies with the U.S.N.F. monograph for benzalkonium chloride solution.
    Typical properties:
    • Chain length distribution: 70% C12 + 30% C14
    • Appearance at 25C: Clear liquid
    • Colour: Pale yellow
    • Density at 20C: 0.98 g/cm3
    • Viscosity at 20C: 120 m.Pa.s
    • Active matter (mmw 354): 50.0 +/- 1.0
    • Free Amine (mmw 221): 0.50% max.
    • pH (5% sol): 8.0 +/- 1.0
    • composition: 50% active solution in water
    • Stability in application: Stable in the presence of light, over the pH range 4 - 10 and up to 120°C
    Benzalkonium chloride, also known as alkyldimethylbenzylammonium chloride and ADBAC, is a mixture of alkylbenzyldimethylammonium chlorides of various even-numbered alkyl chain lengths. This product is a nitrogenous cationic surface active agent belonging to the quaternary ammonium group. It has three main categories of use; as a biocide, a cationic surfactant and phase trasfer agent in the chemical industry.

    Benzalkonium chloride is readily soluble in ethanol, IPA and acetone. Although dissolution in water is slow, aqueous solutions are easier to handle and are preferred. Solutions should be neutral to slightly alkaline, with colour ranging from colourless to a pale yellow. Solutions foam profusely when shaken.
     
  11. Yes, I've used it and it works great. It is a leading ingredient in some of the Scrubbing bubbles products, which I suspect is why folks have success with that product, though I don't like the other ingredients (and caustic pH) in those. If you can find it in pure form (not Lysol, Bactine, or other household product), by all means use it....it works well. It looks like your description is for a 50% solution....is the other 50% just water?
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  12. Pillpopper

    Pillpopper New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Yes
    it's from a cosher lab supplies in the UK ..costs about $22 a liter including post and is diluted with lab grade water. They also supply EDTA and ISO so happy days :) (they say it takes forever to dissolve which is why they supply the 50% solution)
     
  13. The ADBAC can be dissolved with a little IPA if that is in your mix. You can also heat the water a bit. A 50% solution is way better, but you should keep at room temp to avoid flaky precipitate. The EDTA is also way easier if it is also in solution. The dihydrate dissolves ok, but the straight acid must be titrated with NaOH to a neutral pH to dissolve. Hopefully the lab can help you with this.
     
  14. Pillpopper

    Pillpopper New Member

    Messages:
    5
    I've ordered EDTA Na4 - Ethylene diamine tetraacetic acid Tetra Sodium Salt - rather than the straight acid .. was only a $1 more so hopefully I wont have to titrate :) .. but as my garage is starting to look like a chem lab .....
    thanks for the tip about room temperature .. I keep the rest in my beer fridge so she doesn't complain.
     
  15. JBNY

    JBNY New Member

    Messages:
    4
    After reading this thread I went and purchased my supplies. I had everything by the weekend and made a concentrate of
    50ml RO/DI
    30ml Hep 256
    40ml Triton X-100
    16g Tetrasodium EDTA

    I then made a 1 liter solution using:
    8ml concentrate
    50ml ISO
    942ml RO/DI

    Used it on a few records, followed by an RO/DI rinse using my VPI 16.5 RCM and wow this stuff is the real deal. It easily cleaned some pretty dirty records and playback was much improved, hardly any pops or clicks and just a vastly better and easier cleaning solution than I had been using (DIY ISO and RO/DI).

    I really want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread and worked out the issues to allow me to make the solution as easily as I did.

    BTW I have a bunch of Pyrex beakers, a magnetic stir bar spinner, and pipettes on hand from other projects so the mix and measuring was very easy. EDTA mixed up with no problems with 16g into 50ml of RO/DI, left it on the magnetic spinner for about 5 minutes and the solution was perfectly mixed and clear.
     
  16. Donal64

    Donal64 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    561
    Location:
    Ohio
    RO/DI?

    Reverse Osmosis/Deionization?
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  17. JBNY

    JBNY New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Sorry yeah, Reverse Osmosis/Deionization. I have a pretty large Reef Tank so I have a Multi stage RO unit with two DI canisters at the end. So all my water is from that. rodi is pretty common term for the makeup water we use in the reef hobby.
     
  18. Congrats JBNY, glad things are working out well. Just a question, are you using the cleaning solution from inside your RCM reservoir or are you hand scrubbing with it, then using the RCM for water rinses?
    Also, where did you come up with the amounts you are adding (seems like you could get by with way less of some components, especially EDTA).
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2018
  19. JBNY

    JBNY New Member

    Messages:
    4
    I am using the RCM for the cleaning solution application and the rinse. Not hand scrubbing.
     
  20. Pillpopper

    Pillpopper New Member

    Messages:
    5
    I bought an early press copy of Hunky Dory at the weekend at the knock down price of $15 because it was very crackly despite looking clean to the naked eye. I've cleaned once with my current mix of Triton and 5% ISO but is still quite crackly. I'm going to do again with an Enzyme soak and then clean again.

    Creon is a medical human digestive enzyme replacement mix : these work best at ph8ish so I'm going to add some Reef Buffer from the local fish store in RODI water !! The buffer contains a lot of Boron I believe so I've not used yet until I obtained the EDTA which I hope will chelate any heavy metals left behind and then rewash in the standard Triton/ISO/Quat/EDTA mix suggested in the early posts.

    I'll let you know if it fixes the crackles :)
     

Share This Page