Reducing or Eliminating Crackle on Cleaned Records?

A

AnzacSonata

Super Member
I realize this is probably an overtly clichéd topic around these parts, but it's something that has been annoying me since I got back into vinyl a few years ago (after abandoning it during the CD boom)...

I use the dishwashing soap-and-water method to clean my used vinyl (we can argue the merits of this process in another thread at another time; I basically rinse the LP in luke warm/coolish water, then scrub it down gently in the direction of the grooves with a soft sponge, then rinse, then hand dry with a lint free cloth, and do the same on the flip side) and it has been working fine for me when the object is to clean dirty, mistreated albums or 12-inch singles...however, I find that many times, especially on older used LPs, there's still a good amount of crackle on these records, especially annoying between tracks when there's silence and the volume is turned up...

I totally get that this can be the condition they're in and a billion other factors -- but in general, even records that were purchased and cared for by me years ago that I'm rediscovering now tend to exhibit some crackle throughout (some get super-quiet too, though). I have heard about alcohol (rubbing) being a good chemical for eliminating crackle on vinyl, but is this true?
 
Your cleaning method does not get down into the grooves, for starters. Even ones that do often fail to remove ground-in dust particles. Those are best removed with ultrasonic cleaners, or the glue method (to an extent...). Even ultrasonic cleaning that removes the ground-in dust particles can leave behind indentations in the vinyl, and of course scratches. A good ultrasonic cleaner will get records as clean as is possible. Anything left is damage.

Alcohol will do nothing to dissolve the minerals in dust particles. It may help loosen them, but not if they have been ground in by playing while dusty.
 
Well, I'm not using the glue method, for sure, and I'm not involving myself in ultrasonic cleaners.

I guess you answered my question about the alcohol; is that what the crackles are after doing a good cleaning, the minerals in dust particles?
 
Most "popcorn" on vinyl can be attributed to 3 factors. Static electricity, derbies lodged in the groove (mold, other) and defects in the vinyl medium, itself. Hard to treat a symptom if the cause is unknown. Some cleaning methods solve nothing, some add to the problem.
 
WaynerN said:
Most "popcorn" on vinyl can be attributed to 3 factors. Static electricity, derbies lodged in the groove (mold, other) and defects in the vinyl medium, itself. Hard to treat a symptom if the cause is unknown. Some cleaning methods solve nothing, some add to the problem.
Click to expand...

Figured this was the case, but thanks at any rate, Wayner; is there anything that can be perhaps sprayed on records to eliminate the crackle (assuming it's not pure groove damage) after records have been cleaned?

It's just so frustrating when you spend all this time scrubbing and scrubbing the vinyl to make it as clean as possible, and there is crackle between tracks or during quiet passages.
 
NEVER use isopropyl alcohol on records. It will remove the lubricants in the grooves. I tried this once and ended up with a record that had a continuous annoying hiss as it played.
 
AnzacSonata said:
Figured this was the case, but thanks at any rate, Wayner; is there anything that can be perhaps sprayed on records to eliminate the crackle (assuming it's not pure groove damage) after records have been cleaned?

It's just so frustrating when you spend all this time scrubbing and scrubbing the vinyl to make it as clean as possible, and there is crackle between tracks or during quiet passages.
Click to expand...
I use your method with foamy soap... no particular brand... and it works fine...no crackles, just a few ticks and pops that are 'scratched' into the record itself. Static charges will contribute to crackles... maybe some other things... I don't have a problem with it so don't have it to chase but I do use the your basic method to clean them.
 
spicer said:
I use your method with foamy soap... no particular brand... and it works fine...no crackles, just a few ticks and pops that are 'scratched' into the record itself. Static charges will contribute to crackles... maybe some other things... I don't have a problem with it so don't have it to chase but I do use the your basic method to clean them.
Click to expand...

Thanks Spicer...

When you say "foamy soap," do you mean a dishwashing soap? I only use gentle ones like Dawn, and this has worked fine for me for getting records really, really clean; in fact, I had some old 12 inch singles from the DJ days that had urine caked on them when my parents' Malteses got to them when I was storing records at their place at one point, and they're like brand new now when played back after cleaning them with the soap...

I'm glad that you don't get any crackles using my method; I suppose it could be my tap water leaving particles, as suggested, or perhaps my drying method, or damage that was already there but didn't come out with a cleaning. I will stay away from alcohol, as suggested by one member here, and just deal with the crackle I suppose.
 
dr*audio said:
NEVER use isopropyl alcohol on records. It will remove the lubricants in the grooves. I tried this once and ended up with a record that had a continuous annoying hiss as it played.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing this up, doctor; what "lubricants" are in grooves?
 
AnzacSonata said:
The hard tap water could definitely be a factor; I've read that thread you cited.
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Active drying (vacuum or blotting dry) is good, too, otherwise any suspended crud stays behind.

I've had good results dealing with static on a particularly troublesome Van de Graff generator of a turntable by ditching my carbon-fiber brush and using a Discwasher with a very light spritz of this:

 
A spin clean would be an improvement in your cleaning process. I have also found that cartridge alignment affects noise. More specifically, if your VTA is off, you will hear more surface noise on the record. VTF can also impact surface noise. The type of stylus also has an effect on how quiet or noisy you playback might be. Lots of variables.
 
sqlsavior said:
Active drying (vacuum or blotting dry) is good, too, otherwise any suspended crud stays behind.

I've had good results dealing with static on a particularly troublesome Van de Graff generator of a turntable by ditching my carbon-fiber brush and using a Discwasher with a very light spritz of this:

Click to expand...

Thank you for the suggestion.
 
try1256 said:
A spin clean would be an improvement in your cleaning process. I have also found that cartridge alignment affects noise. More specifically, if your VTA is off, you will hear more surface noise on the record. VTF can also impact surface noise. The type of stylus also has an effect on how quiet or noisy you playback might be. Lots of variables.
Click to expand...

My tracking force is on the high side for my cart, for better tracking and less sibilance, but what irks me is that new, untouched records DON'T play with crackle (unless it's baked in there by a poor mastering job or something) while old ones I clean usually have some surface noise between tracks or on the lead-in drop...

As for stylus, I am getting ready to upgrade my elliptical to a fine tip, probably the AT440MLb replacement, as this will probably cure the inner groove distortion issues I'm having with the AT95E.

I suppose there ARE a ton of variables, as I attested to in my original post...just wanted to get some feedback from the community here with regard to something I might be able to try.
 
AnzacSonata said:
Thanks Spicer...

When you say "foamy soap," do you mean a dishwashing soap? I only use gentle ones like Dawn, and this has worked fine for me for getting records really, really clean; in fact, I had some old 12 inch singles from the DJ days that had urine caked on them when my parents' Malteses got to them when I was storing records at their place at one point, and they're like brand new now when played back after cleaning them with the soap...

I'm glad that you don't get any crackles using my method; I suppose it could be my tap water leaving particles, as suggested, or perhaps my drying method, or damage that was already there but didn't come out with a cleaning. I will stay away from alcohol, as suggested by one member here, and just deal with the crackle I suppose.
Click to expand...
It is usually diluted dish soap, Dawn being the one that is usually on the shelf... sometimes hand soap but not with any softening oils, that kind of thing, just soap. It leaves the records completely lint and dust free too. I have not used alcohol... just something about it, plus it is flammable and on a large surface like a record... I'd just as soon avoid that. I have no doubt that better methods exist... the ultrasonic, etc., but I just can't see myself getting involved in all that... too craven perhaps to admit to my interest in records.
 
spicer said:
It is usually diluted dish soap, Dawn being the one that is usually on the shelf... sometimes hand soap but not with any softening oils, that kind of thing, just soap. It leaves the records completely lint and dust free too. I have not used alcohol... just something about it, plus it is flammable and on a large surface like a record... I'd just as soon avoid that. I have no doubt that better methods exist... the ultrasonic, etc., but I just can't see myself getting involved in all that... too craven perhaps to admit to my interest in records.
Click to expand...

I agree about "not getting involved" in all that other stuff for cleaning; the soap works for me, too, as I said -- it's just that there IS something that's leaving a crackling element behind...

More than likely, it's my tap water supply.
 
AnzacSonata said:
I agree about "not getting involved" in all that other stuff for cleaning; the soap works for me, too, as I said -- it's just that there IS something that's leaving a crackling element behind...

More than likely, it's my tap water supply.
Click to expand...
Yeah... that sounds like something you'll have to experiment with or somebody might provide the answer... wouldn't it be something if it turned out to be the cleaning method... :)
 
I would suggest you take your record cleaning to the next level and purchase a VPI or nitty gritty or other RCM that will suck the cleaning solution/water off of the record rather than hand/air drying. I currently use a nitty gritty and it is over 20 years old so I feel I have gotten my monies worth from it. Rather than spend money getting a new cartridge, this is where I would spend the funds.
 
First thing to consider: oil and water don't mix because oil is non ionic and water is ionic.

Alocohol will dissolve and lift things that are SOLVENT in alcohol. Non ionic things that are oily like fingerprints. Alcohol evaporates quickly but does leave a film (Experienced by anyone who has ever used either isopropyl or ethyl alcohol to clean their eyeglasses). This film can be removed with water, but the water film itself must be lifted (vacuumed or wiped) otherwise it will redeposit on the surface being cleaned.
Alcohol will also damage vinyl because vinyl is petroleum based. It will damage the vinyl's elasticity.

Tap water is an ionic based solvent that will dissolve those things that are SOLVENT in water such as salts. Water also leave a film. The film will contain minerals dissolved in tap water.
Tap water also contains some organic compounds such as chloramines (used to keep city tap water potable).

An ideal detergent must dissolve both ionic and non-ionic compounds so they can be carried away by the final rinse. The detergent must have the affinity to grab oils and an affinity to water, so the final distilled water rinse can carry everything away. But you have to wipe or vacuum the final rinse away, otherwise it will simply redeposit the film on the surface being cleaned.

As a side observation, I've never seen anything clean the lenses of my glasses as well as windshield washer fluid. Unfortunately, windshield washer fluid usually contains methanol and possibly ethylene glycol, both of which I fear wiil damage vinyl.
 
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