Rega Planar 3 or Technics 1200

[thelandlord]

(Laughing) Oh, buddy you're gonna get it after that one.

Good job I have an asbestos hide then, isn't it?

I have a deep respect for both turntables - and could live with either if it was set up right... but that's something rarely seen in either case.

 

[leepal]

The 1200 isn't really a hifi turntable

Boooo!! Get off!

 

[psychadelicf]

Thanks

Thanks for everyone's helpful comments. I have tried to convince my wife that I should keep both, to no avail! One has to go!! I don't have any real high end equipment to pair with either TT. All I have is an HK 3380 stereo receiver and a pair of vintage sansui's. I hope to get better equipment over time. Im not trying to figure out which one is sonically betteror which one is better. The reason why I'm asking is because I'm torn between the two and don't know which one to sell. If I had two receivers I would set them both up and do a comparison. But I don't. If and when I do decide I defnately will post my decision.

On a side note is the Mayware a tonearm worth keeping? Or should I go back to RB300 if I decide on the rega.

Again sorry if I caused any confusion

Thanks
Sal

 

[MWalt]

If it was a new P3-24 I would say keep it and sell the SL1200. If the 1200 is clean, keep it, sell the Rega, and use the profits to mod the shit out of the Technics. Put on a Jelco 750D arm and a Benz Micro Ace cart and call it a score! If you have a Rega RB 300 use that arm on the SL 1200!

 

[majick47]

Being a Yank I'm going to play neutral, the Rega is made in England, the Technics is made in Japan. I'm sure if a "DJ" installed a scratch/DJ cartridge on a Rega the sound would be equally repulsive as on a Technics. Another question might be would the Rega stand up to the DJ antics as well as the Technics? It might be to the OPs benefit if he gives both turntables/cartridges a good audition with his own ears before he makes a decision as to which one is going. It isn't that much of an effort to disconnect one TT and hook up the other, otherwise he will always wondering after it's too late what if I had listened to the other TT and it sounded better.

 

[thedelihaus]

...The 1200 isn't really a hifi turntable..and it was never seriously marketed as one...

While I feel the stock Technics SL1200MK2 isn't a perfect table, I'd argue this point as incorrect.

And so would Technics, as they clearly stated the SL1200 series was designed for audiophile use, and proved "...a strong favourite among audio purists, amateur and professional..."- Of course, that's their marketing copy, so maybe a point perhaps arguable. Or not.

But alas, you are on mark about the popularity in discos- "...particularly popular in discos because of its rugged construction, easy handling, high torque and good immunity to feedback...."

...It's a DJ turntable designed for people whose hearing is already damaged, and who are likely to be operating it while 'chemically enhanced' - hence it's tendency towards a 'tizz-boom' sound if you let it and being built like a brick outhouse so it doesn't break when you fall over on it...

For some reason, I really can't picture the Technics engineers sitting around, with sole intention to design a table specifically to reach goals such as 1) build it for those with pre-existing hearing damage 2) ease of use under owners with a predisposition for chemical dependency, and 3) people with a tendency to commonly fall on their turntables.

UK's HiFi World would disagree too, with this excerpt discussing the stock Technics SL1200MK2-

"...Having spent many years in love with a Rega Planar 3 I found myself borrowing a Technics SL-1200 Direct Drive turntable, fitted with a decent Goldring G1042 cartridge. I was expecting a deeply unpleasant listening experience compared to my reference Rega, let alone my "main" Mitchell Or be. I duly cued up my copy of Inner City's "Good Life", sat back and was amazed….in some respects it seemed inexplicably not just better than my Rega, but better than my Mitchell too!..."

Admittedly, perhaps a bit too jubilant a review.

Also in your favor, UKs Tone Audio prefers the Rega P3 over the SL1200MK2, saying:

"...I must confess that while my journey in HiFi started with a Technics SL1200 about 35 years ago, I quickly got caught up in being a proper audiophile and traded that table in for a belt-drive Rega Planar 3. To be fair to the Rega, I still prefer the sound of a P3 to the sound of a stock Technics SL-1200..."

But back to HiFi World- and also in your corner- they concur they prefer the Rega RB-250 arm over the stock Technics arm- a testament to Roy Gandy's RB250, RB-300 and above arm.

"...I fitted a beautifully rebuilt (by Audio Origami) Rega RB-250 to a SL-1200, plus a SoundDeadSteel Isoplatmat platter mat and Isnoe isolation feet, The result was music to my ears..."

And you'll find me in agreement- an SL1200MK2 in stock form has a few shortcomings, but a modded SL1200MK2, with these issues addressed, can be something special.

"...The fundamentals of the Technics SL1200 are excellent, and the more it's modded, the more they shine..."


Again, let's step back to Tone Audio, discussing a fully modded SL1200MK2 from UK's Dave Cowley- these mods not as budget conscious as a mat and Rega arm swap, these mods including an arm upgrade to an SME 309 for one, power supply, bearing, and a few other goodies, and ringing in at a final total cost of triple the stock technics, at $2000-

"The Sound – Glorious!
Yes, you heard right; I’m gloating about the sound of an SL-1200."

and-

"I’ve had the opportunity to listen to a lot of turntables in the $2,000 - $3,000 range from Rega, VPI, Pro-Ject, Music Hall, etc., and for my money, this one is the one to beat..."

It is heavily suggested here by Tone Audio it takes the $5000 Rega P9/RB-1000 and Raven Two to top the fully modified $2000 Technics-

"...Would I give up my Rega P9/RB 1000 or Raven TWO with SME 309 for this table? No, it’s not that good, but it’s so damn good for $2,000, paired up with your favorite $900 cartridge, that you may not ever need to spend more money on a turntable unless you have a mega system. This truly is a magic combination, being much more than the sum of its parts..."

My point is- the Technics SL1200MK2 is not perfect, but can be modified cheaply to costly, for performance gains at each price point comfortable to the owner.

These pricepoints/mods start at under $100 for better RCAs and tone arm wire (if you do it yourself) and tone arm dampening mods, to an additional $300-$600 for a Jelco, Sumiko, Audioquest, Rega or other arm and including arm board, to the $200-$300 bearing mods, to the $230-$450 power supply, to the uber-mod- the $700-$900 used market SME 309 arm.


PS- I always enjoy listening to the P3 at my friend's place- especially with the external PSU.:thmbsp:

NOTE- that's an approx. $1475 table to put in perspective with the stock and modded Technics tables, $650 stock to $2000 fully loaded.

 

[goldwax]

Thanks for everyone's helpful comments. I have tried to convince my wife that I should keep both, to no avail! One has to go!!

You can't set up a second system someplace else in the house? Or what about taking the Technics to work and spinning records while you cut hair. (Or else while you're in between customers!)

 

[thelandlord]

Another question might be would the Rega stand up to the DJ antics as well as the Technics?

Not a prayer... and if I saw somebody trying I'd probably cry. :tears:

 

[beej]

This thread may have some legs.

 

[thelandlord]

While I feel the stock Technics SL1200MK2 isn't a perfect table, I'd argue this point as incorrect.

And so would Technics, as they clearly stated the SL1200 series was designed for audiophile use, and proved "...a strong favourite among audio purists, amateur and professional..."- Of course, that's their marketing copy, so maybe a point perhaps arguable. Or not.

But the Panasonic/Technics sales reps didn't sell them into serious hifi outlets, even though they appeared in the corporate literature... the 1200/1210 was (certainly at the time I sold them) a special-order item that was usually sold in pairs, and without audition. I don't think I was ever asked for a single unit - but of course regional tastes vary, and you don't need me to tell you about the snobbery surrounding certain turntables... Japanese turntables in general - and any Japanese speaker that isn't Yamaha - would be near impossible to sell to the hifi-buying public in the UK.

For some reason, I really can't picture the Technics engineers sitting around, with sole intention to design a table specifically to reach goals such as 1) build it for those with pre-existing hearing damage 2) ease of use under owners with a predisposition for chemical dependency, and 3) people with a tendency to commonly fall on their turntables.

You're probably right about the first one - the second two may well have been taken into account, especially after any feedback about failure modes in early production... I was an engineer before a salesman and it's the sort of thing that might have been discussed during refresh.

Admittedly, perhaps a bit too jubilant a review.

Have you ever seen reviews being written in the bar at a trade show? It's quite an eye-opener... entertaining and scary in equal measure.

"...The fundamentals of the Technics SL1200 are excellent, and the more it's modded, the more they shine..."

Apart from the fundamental problem of being direct drive, again I'd agree... those bearings are pretty sweet right out of the box. The stock arm is great for it's intended purpose too.

You raise some very interesting points about the modding of both TTs, and made me shudder a bit when I saw some of the prices...

Here a 'standard' 1200 cost £300 when I was selling them about 15 years ago... if I remember right they were mk2 then. (The price has skyrocketed since they were discontinued last February and they can be £1500 now)

A Rega with the latest arm, RB301, costs about £300 now. In both cases the cartridge is sold as an extra.... even discounting the ridiculous price of the 1200s remaining over here the Rega has always been the less expensive unit - that may go some way towards explaining our differing experiences each side of the ditch? The Technics simply wasn't competitive against decks like the Linn Axis etc of comparable price here?

I think we might all learn something interesting if we made a separate thread about comparative pricing in different markets... because it seems to me Technics may have been taking people for a ride over here, and Rega may have been doing the same over there... and I very much doubt they're the only guilty ones... thoughts?

 

[dnewma04]

Both are good, SL-1200s handle bad situations better (foot traffic, very loud volumes, etc), but under normal conditions both are excellent performers. I think that even the SL-1200 zealots here on AK would recognize they both sound good.

 

[paulisme]

If you were happy with the Rega before you got the Technics, I say get rid of the Technics. I couldn't own a Rega because of the speed stability. I bought a P1 a couple years ago and returned it the next day because pianos, strings and synths sounded like they were under water. I actually posted clips on here of the speed fluctuations and some folks couldn't even hear it, so if you're one of those people, consider yourself lucky as it will allow you to enjoy a broader range of turntables. I'm pretty much relegated to the direct drive world.

And don't listen to anyone who says the SL-1200 isn't a hi-fi turntable.

 

[dnewma04]

And should we also not listen to anyone who says a Rega has speed fluctuation issues? Or are some opinions more valuable than others?

 

[kermit z]

To the OP, I would try them out. And then go with the one I liked the most. Its as easy as that. I would not listen to the grips of others (DD tables have a lot of noise and the BD tables have speed problems) Find what you enjoy the most and if you must sell one, sell your least favorite Good luck

 

[iceman79]

Sell the Rega. Take wife out to dinner. Take rest of money and invest in the SL-1200. Happy wife, happy life, and a tt for life.

 

[beej]

Sell the Rega. Take wife out to dinner. Take rest of money and invest in the SL-1200. Happy wife, happy life, and a tt for life.

And you, sir, have an awesome avatar.

 

[thelandlord]

And don't listen to anyone who says the SL-1200 isn't a hi-fi turntable.

Now you're putting words in my mouth... :nono:

What I said is that it wasn't sold as a hifi turntable - which it wasn't in the UK market... I worked in the Technics main dealership for the region and we weren't supposed to demo them and got in trouble if Technics sales reps ever caught us.

Given the right set-up it would have been perfectly capable, but not competitive in it's price range... however it seems Technics had deliberately placed it at a much more expensive price-point over here than over there so it wasn't competing against the same decks here.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Love the Rega sound quality vastly. Dislike it's sensitivity to footfalls and it's lack of flexible options on changing cartridges. Also, it's speed stability for sensitive ears could be better. It's occasionally variable. I still love the Rega but the Rega is unsuited for my needs as an audiophile, archivist, and record collector. I did the same thing Delihaus did. Only my tonearm and plinth are different.

 

[thelandlord]

And should we also not listen to anyone who says a Rega has speed fluctuation issues? Or are some opinions more valuable than others?

He's right about the Rega though - in common with most BD turntables a Rega can have speed fluctuation issues... but not if they're competently set up.

I'm afflicted with perfect pitch and any turntable that isn't 'just so' is physically painful to listen to... don't get me started on pianos... :sigh:

That competence is the issue there - few dealers have a turntable specialist that will visit the customer and set up a turntable in-situ, it's completely pointless setting one up in the shop and then moving it.
That's always been a problem and it'll get worse not better... that's one reason why it's so important for places like this to keep the old skills alive.

It's also why a DD like a 1200 straight out of the box will almost always be better than a BD - they're much more tolerant and most people can't hear the 'cogging' of the high-torgue motor, the lack of a belt avoids almost every maintenance issue, and all that torque maintains the pitch pretty well over a wide range of modulation-loads... for the majority of users who want to just turn it on and listen rather than fiddle all day they may often be a better bet?

As I said before - they're very different tools... and there's plenty of room in the world for both kinds.

 

[thelandlord]

Love the Rega sound quality vastly. Dislike it's sensitivity to footfalls

You and me both - I have a solid floor in a solid brick-built home rather than a suspended one... on a wooden floor a Rega is pretty much unuseable unless you have a mass-loaded stand that cost more than it did.

A question; what sort of percentage of homes over in the USA have suspended wooden floors on the ground floor?

If it's substantially more than over here it could go some way towards accounting for the huge difference in tastes in both turntables and speakers.
In this town, maybe less than 5% of houses would have anything other than solid concrete or stone for their ground floor... footfall isn't usually an issue at all here unless you're upstairs, is it there?

We may be learning something here - about turntables as part of a system that includes the mechanics of the building.