MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
I think you (and several others) missed the word "no" in his original post. If not, I think handmade by Santa's elves would be even more limiting.
Reliable DD Turntable
- Thread starter PJ62
- Start date
I think you (and several others) missed the word "no" in his original post. If not, I think handmade by Santa's elves would be even more limiting.
I totally sped right past the Santa's elves part that made the whole statement a joke.
I read, "No TOTL. 221v, Uzbekistan only."
OutlawSun
Well-Known Member
The Micro Seiki DD-40 and DD-35 are lookers too and come with a version of the MA-505 arm.
Wow that is a good looking turntable.
It really is. Neat strobe design too.
I totally sped right past the Santa's elves part that made the whole statement a joke.
I read, "No TOTL. 221v, Uzbekistan only."
Yes, sorry about that. I was being a little (too) sarcastic. Sometimes the recommendation threads here on AK devolve into listings of each manufacturers ultra expensive elite models that are seldom (if ever) seen, especially on CL and Bookoo. Since I already have 3 really good belt drive turntables, I was looking for a really good DD table to see what those are like. Didn't want to drop a lot of money because it's a want, not a need. If I find I really like DD, then I can go back and start perusing the models higher up the food chain.
For what it's worth, I am on the the far western edges of the Chicago metro area. The local market is ridiculous. I have looked at CL and Bookoo every few days for about 2 months now, and I have only seen a handful of 70s/80s turntables listed in that time. Most decent ones are vacuumed up quickly by flippers. I know this because I actually called about a nice looking Kenwood and the guy said it was sold an hour after the listing. Two days later the same table sans cartridge (had the same green 45 adapter and crack in cover near hinge) appeared in a different town at twice the price. Audiogon is only for higher end stuff out of my tax bracket. My best bet will most likely be Ebay or Bartertown, which is why I am asking for recommendations, so I can develop a short list for my searches.
savatage1973
Addicted Member
I'm sorry, but this is not a "fair" or "realistic" premise, by any means. You want to put up an "entry level" DD table up against 3 known "good" belt drives that you already own
--with cosmetics being a major factor in the comparison.If you want to come over, you are more than welcome to compare my pair of Technics SL-1200 MK1's that I have owned since the 70's and DJ'd with for years and put them up against my Linn LP12 that I bought new in 1985 and (at this point) have about $5K wrapped up in it, or my three Dual CS5000's, each of which ranging from $500-1500, depending on which cart is on them--guess what?--the DD Technics are going to SUCK compared to those belt drives.
IMO--and that of many others, the drive mechanism is not a determining factor in the overall performance of a table. It is all about quality--belt, DD, idler or even outboard motor mechanisms.
At this point, I'm not even sure if I understand the original point.
No need for that, as mentioned earlier, I own a CS5000 myself, as well as an Ariston RD11s, which is not much different than your Linn, (although I chose to not put $5000 into mine). The Ariston requires some fiddling now and again, so I am starting to use the Dual more, plus it has auto lift. The other tt I have, an HK T60 with a Grado on it, doesn't get much action. None of those cost me more than $400, although I don't know what they go for now. As soon as I get a nice DD table, I can compare them all myself 
. No need then for me to drive to PA, but thanks for the offer.
So you are saying why bother, because all the previously recommended $500 and under DD tables (say the Sansui SR-636 or Sony PS-X50, two that really interest me) are crap compared to under $500 belt drive tables?
. No need then for me to drive to PA, but thanks for the offer.So you are saying why bother, because all the previously recommended $500 and under DD tables (say the Sansui SR-636 or Sony PS-X50, two that really interest me) are crap compared to under $500 belt drive tables?
In my opinion, they'll probably blow most inexpensive belt drives out of the water.
I really, really don't want this to turn into a belt versus dd thread, that is not the intent. I just want to get some example of good affordable dd tables. There's a bajillion models out there, just looking for advice on good ones to look for that others have experience with. Then if I come across one at a good price I can snag it to compare to my current tables for a different perspective. And yes, if my money is going to pay for it, I am gonna get one I like to look at....and I don't like silver. That's all, no ulterior motive.
My only point is that I don't believe you need to spend $$$ to get a good experience out of a DD table. I'd be zeroing in on the mid-upper tier Sonys, JVCs and Kenwoods myself.
From reading a ton of threads here lately, it seems virtually every manufacturer in Japan was making very capable dd turntables from 1974 to 1983. A quick check of Ebay shows nearly 20 Japanese companies in the turntable section. Even if each company released only 3 DD models a year, simple math 3*20*10 = 600 possible choices! That doesn't even take into account the private label, rebranded units like the MCS mentioned earlier. I was trying to winnow the huge list of possible models down based on forum member's positive experiences with certain models.
savatage1973
Addicted Member
You are kind of mis-interpreting what I meant, or I am not expressing myself well (which might be more of the case). You can't touch a CS5000 or RD11 in good working order with a decent cart for $500--and you are trying to compare it to a DD for $500 (I am assuming in good working order with a decent cart). That is apples and oranges. Put your budget for the DD at $1K and compare it to the belt drives that you own, and now you have a "level playing field".
This is not about DD vs belt vs idler--that has been beaten to death and still being debated elsewhere, and let's leave it there. My point is that you want to compare (assuming complete and functional) a $500 max DD TT to an easily $1K belt-drive TT--not a fair comparison. Now if you were comparing a $750 to $1K fully functional DD table to what you have, I'd call it fair.
MCM_Fan
AK Subscriber
One quick question (ok, more like three): is your $500 budget for just the table, or the table + cartridge? What cartridge do you intend to use with this table? Since you already have multiple tables, will you be reusing one of your current cartridges?
Ultimately, I find the quality of the cartridge/stylus influences the sound more than the table spinning the records. In order for your comparison to be valid you should use the same cartridges, or at least ones of comparable cost best matched to the tonearm on each table.
No, I want to hear what a good $500 dd table sounds like. That would be the same level as what I currently own. On what planet do Dual CS5000s or Ariston RD11s go for $1000? Ebay shows a nice wood CS5000 sold last week for $391. Aristons go for around the same. Where does the $1000 figure come from?
I have Ortofon FF15 on my 2 users with one to spare
and a Grado on my backup. I also have a couple Shures, a couple AT, and a nice Denon waiting in the weeds.....
savatage1973
Addicted Member
Most--and I mean most--Dual CS5000's are going in the $400-450 range + shipping, and either without the "correct" VTA adjustable headshell ($100), and or some cart of unknown origin. So--at minimum $500, and then I need (maybe) a headshell, and I know I will probably need a cart (or at least a new stylus), and maybe a new belt Find me an Ariston RD11 with a decent arm and cart and set up properly (even in fairly basic form for $500) and I'll be out in the truck and on my way. So, for either of these tables to be set up and running properly in my system, I am looking at $1K minimum (unless I go nuts on a cart, and that alone can run $1K easily).
I have a fully automatic DD Sony sitting here right now, all lubed/tuned and ready to go, but it doesn't meet your criteria (it is silver)--they sell all day on that auction site for ~$200+shippiing, but I can't give it away locally (guess I'll have to ship it)--so even with an Ortofon cart on it, it is worth NOTHING.
Better fire up that ol' Chevy hauler Savage, there's an Ariston on Kijiji up in Quebec with a smokin' SME arm way nicer than what I have for $750CN, which is about $575US...... been up for a over a month
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-stereo-syst...me-3009-tonearm-considering-trades/1367796540
https://www.kijiji.ca/v-stereo-syst...me-3009-tonearm-considering-trades/1367796540
Again... I don't even have a Techincs.... but if you don't want the most reliable DD ever mad because they are silver... take a look at this:
Yes Manny, that is a good looking table. I would buy that. Don't think I will find one around here, but if I do, I would probably snag that.
restorer-john
Addicted Member
The issues are ongoing and numerous. Nylon is the big problem as it was used in virtually all the gears, arms, sleeves/bearings, guides, levers and tight tolerance engineering sections of the automatic mechanisms in just about every turntable made in the last 50 years. As you know, it expands as it absorbs moisture and cracks. This renders most automatic TTs non-functional or partially functional. Often stylus and/or record damage is a result.
Reworking/replacing broken nylon parts is no fun and a specialist task.
Many of the 80s ICs are dying due to environmental ingress and various metal migrations both internally and externally. Photo sensors/leds from the 70s and 80s are proving to be unreliable in their old age.
Look at a Denon DP-30/30L. AC servo high torque DD with an optical auto-lift and shutoff. No arm mechanics to go wrong. Auto lift is a linear motor (no gears or bearings) driving the lift mech. Simple and reliable and silent. Has silver chassis with black control panel and arm.
