Replicate Actual Theatre Sound

[MannyE]

Correct. The height channels are instrumental in allowing object placement within the bubble. Early Atmos soundtracks on Blurays were awesome but they're getting even better. XXX the Return of Xander Cage had me pausing the movie and walking into the adjacent room to see what the hell all the clatter was. Nada. It was the sound of shells falling to the ground - I had to rewatch the scene again to be sure that my mind wasn't playing tricks on me. So, it's up to the engineers doing the soundtrack on just how much they want to make use of the technology. My setup is at present 5.1.4. I've not yet heard 7.1.4 so can't comment how much of an improvement that would be.

What's the .4 in 5.1.4?

 

[whoaru99]

Far as I know, the industry reference level specifications, 105dB peak from speakers, 115dB peak for LFE, applies to cinema too. That said, I don't believe there are any regulations, per se, that limit cinema to those levels unless there are locally-enforced SPL limits.

 

[whoaru99]

What's the .4 in 5.1.4?

The ATMOS channels, I believe.

.2 or .4, typ. for home use.

 

[MannyE]

The ATMOS channels, I believe.

.2 or .4, typ. for home use.

Are they physical speakers or the "phantom" locations? I need to do some reading...

 

[whoaru99]

Don't know what you mean by phantom locations.

 

[MannyE]

Don't know what you mean by phantom locations.

I mean are those channels actual speakers or are they created by the software?

EDIT... as in 5.1 5 speakers and one sub... 5.2 5 speakers and 2 subs... that kind of thing..

 

[MannyE]

Looked it up.. 4 ceiling speakers... I get it now...

 

[whoaru99]

Technically, the X.X.X designation refers to the number of channels, not the number of speakers. The number of speakers doesn't necessarily match the number of channels.

For example, if you ran two sets of front speakers in a 5.1 system doesn't mean it's a 7.1 system. Nor, by connecting two subs, does a 5.1 system necessarily become a 5.2 system.

 

[KDAC]

I think the problem is with how companies are pushing having more than a 5.1 system and marketing it as being so much better than 5.1. While it is true an atmos system when done correctly does sound better than a 5.1 system, the problem is alot of homes do not have the proper room for an atmos system done correctly. A system that has a properly done 5.1 or better yet 5.2 system in an average room sounds much better than a crammed average room of speakers trying to replicate an atmos system. I have set my less than optimal room up with a very good 5.2 setup and I prefer it over many movie theater systems except the imax theaters which to me is a very nice and imersive experience. I'm using Velodyne Hgs 12 subs and they work great in my setup but there are many excellent subwoofers you can use to match the setup you want.

Audiofreak71

Awesome comment, Audiofreak71. I watch what few movies I do nowadays via the 5.2-channel setup in my 13Wx12Lx10H bedroom and the sound from DVDs and Blu-Rays is excellent as far as my and my wife's ears are concerned. The main and satellite speakers are pretty much at ear height at the front and back of the room with the two subs at the front and the multi-channel sound from Netflix and the aforementioned disc formats sounds utterly close to that of local theater chains without having the turn the volume up to ear-splitting levels. On top of that, I like the comfort of viewing movies from the comfort of our Aireloom bed versus the furniture I use to use.

 

[MannyE]

Technically, the X.X.X designation refers to the number of channels, not the number of speakers. The number of speakers doesn't necessarily match the number of channels.

For example, if you ran two sets of front speakers in a 5.1 system doesn't mean it's a 7.1 system. Nor, by connecting two subs, does a 5.1 system necessarily become a 5.2 system.

I had always read that splitting the LFE out of a processor into two identical powered subs was indeed what had to change 5.1 to 5.2 . You mean that's not the case?

I get the running two extra speakers to the FL and FR does not make a 5.1 into a 7.1 because the extra two channels in 7.1 are SL and SR in between the front and rear channels) which serves to enhance the spatial effect and enlarge the prime listening area and just adding additional left and right or left rear and right rear speakers will not increase the number of channels, just the number of speakers. That's not what I meant..

When I asked if they were phantom channels I meant were they created artificially by software... but it turns out they are not... the .4 are 4 "Atmos" channels that are in the ceiling.

i also notice that the Dolby website makes reference to "Atmos enabled" speakers which means one cant just scrounge a bunch of used speakers and expect to have a "true" Atmos system. Is this also true?

I really have a lot of reading to do.

 

[whoaru99]

AFAIK, two subs only count as .2 if they are separately managed by the processor - simple Y split doesn't qualify. By rights, .2 should designate two separate LFE channels. My guess is the nomenclature is being perverted to mean nothing more than two subs in most cases.

 

[MannyE]

The other problem I see for getting theater quality sound right now is the format war. Does anyone know if Dolby has definitively won the war between formats? I would really hate to end up with a paperweight that can only play 10 movies in the format it supports.

 

[MannyE]

AFAIK, two subs only count as .2 if they are separately managed by the processor - simple Y split doesn't qualify.

I guess yeah because basically all we are doing is adding more speaker to the one discrete channel. So even if you add 10 subs it's still only a .1 if using the discrete feed as the basis for the number. Makes sense. So what the heck do they mean by .2?? I guess if each sub channel was being somehow adjusted by the processor it would qualify as .2 With the Y setup, each sub has to be adjusted via it's on-board controls vs the internals of the processor.

I think when the community started adding subs it became popular to add a higher number to the sub designation.

 

[whoaru99]

The other problem I see for getting theater quality sound right now is the format war. Does anyone know if Dolby has definitively won the war between formats? I would really hate to end up with a paperweight that can only play 10 movies in the format it supports.

Dolby Digital is the de facto standard. Dolby Digital has been the same for more than 20 years now.

 

[whoaru99]

I guess yeah because basically all we are doing is adding more speaker to the one discrete channel. So even if you add 10 subs it's still only a .1 if using the discrete feed as the basis for the number. Makes sense. So what the heck do they mean by .2?? I guess if each sub channel was being somehow adjusted by the processor it would qualify as .2 With the Y setup, each sub has to be adjusted via it's on-board controls vs the internals of the processor.

I think we're trading edits.

My guess is that most cases of .2 means nothing more than two subwoofer plugs on the back of the processor. A bogus use of .2 designation, IMO. Maybe there is some fine print hiding somewhere saying it means two subs, not two LFE channels.

 

[damacman]

The other problem I see for getting theater quality sound right now is the format war. Does anyone know if Dolby has definitively won the war between formats? I would really hate to end up with a paperweight that can only play 10 movies in the format it supports.

dts:X is the other - at least for movies I’ve personally not heard a dts:X example yet and my AVP isn’t compatible with it.

Look at all of the 4K UHD Blurays coming out now - a bunch of them have a Dolby Atmos soundtrack.

Dolby Atmos is also epic for multi-ch music - Roger Waters’ The Wall being the best example I own. Apparently it was to be recorded in Atmos from the word go.

 

[whoaru99]

AFAIK, it is in the Blu ray standard that all movies must contain a core Dolby Digital track for backwards compatibility, regardless of what newer stuff may be included too.

 

[markshan]

What would you recommend I throw in the bluray player to try it out once more?

The recent 30th Anniversary BluRay of Legend by Bob Marley has great mixes from Bob Clearmountain and can be had for under $15 if you shop around. The next recommendation is pricey because it's only part of a box set, but I love the BluRay of Van Morrison - Moondance.

If you are into music from this century (he said completely seriously knowing where he is) the greatest improvement from stereo to surround can be had in the Beck - Sea Change BluRay. The stereo made me go "meh" but the surround mix blew me away. It's like a whole different work. It can also be had for less than $15 on eBay at the moment.

 

[MannyE]

I think we're trading edits.

My guess is that most cases of .2 means nothing more than two subwoofer plugs on the back of the processor. A bogus use of .2 designation, IMO.

HAHA Yes... this would be better in a chat.. I have been reading up and just now realize that 11.1 is really 7.1.4 and that no matter how many subs, it's always really .1 because it's the same signal going to all the subs.

What I am starting to see is that the notion of 11 speakers being "crazy" is because I have a '90s era way of thinking about speakers for a home theater... can you imagine 11 Definitive Technology BP2002 speakers? Madness. It would probably sound awesome but it would be madness.

But the new wave of quality in-wall and in-ceiling speakers may make the construction of a quality 7.1.4 or 5.1.4 system a reality. Still expensive though because I would have to add 6 more channels of amplification and a new processor. Not to mention the wire runs, etc.

 

[MannyE]

The recent 30th Anniversary BluRay of Legend by Bob Marley has great mixes from Bob Clearmountain and can be had for under $15 if you shop around. The next recommendation is pricey because it's only part of a box set, but I love the BluRay of Van Morrison - Moondance.

If you are into music from this century (he said completely seriously knowing where he is) the greatest improvement from stereo to surround can be had in the Beck - Sea Change BluRay. The stereo made me go "meh" but the surround mix blew me away. It's like a whole different work. It can also be had for less than $15 on eBay at the moment.

Perfect! Thank you. And yes, I'm mostly into music from this century. I like most all of it including EDM and even dubstep...though I only like the more musical mainstream dubstep vs the "real" stuff that barely has a melody.