Resurrecting Infinity RSII (vintage?) Speakers

[MaxSeven]

Hello All,

I have acquired a set of Infinity RSII speakers, which my parents have had since they bought them long ago, when I was in high school. About three or four years ago, I replaced the two damaged bass drivers on each speaker with some fairly high-quality Cerwin-Vega drivers. The original poly drivers were dented and some punctures, foam was disintegrating, and the center cones smashed in by some wacky toddler messing around in the library. The Cerwins were put in just so the speaker would still work properly for my parents at the time. The mids and the emits are fine.

Anyway - I am thinking of taking these hulking pigs (RS II's) out of storage and using them in my new venture into the world of hi-end audio. I also have their old Technics SU-V9 Integrated Amp, with matching tuner, EQ with spectrum analyzer, and turntable -- all in flawless condition.

So I am hoping for some guidance here. Should I flush the whole idea down the toilet, or make do? Are the Cerwins (I don't know the model #) good to keep in there, or will there be cross-over issues? Should I bother to rebuild these speakers with fresh components? I also think the pots are messed up too. But the speaker cabinets are in near perfect condition.

In simple terms, shall I just sell all this stuff and go for a whole new system? I remember loving the sound of the RS II's, although I haven't listened to them in several years.

I would certainly appreciate any thoughts on this whole idea.

 

[Tedrick]

First, welcome to AK. Spend a little time snooping around and I think you'll find this is pretty cool place, chock full of tons of information and lots or really nice folks willing to share their advice, ideas, and experiences.

On the RS-II's, they are definitely worth hanging on to and restoring. First off, I'd ditch the C-V woofers and try to find some stock replacements. You may have to haunt ebay for a while to get some, but the effort will be well worth it. Unless someone REALLY took their time, did their homework, and new what they were doing, its is highly unlikely that the C-V woofers will perform at anywhere near the level of the original Infinity models. With the stock woofers, the RS-IIs are capable of superb, tight, and extended bass.

If properly cared for, the EMIT tweeters and cone mids should be okay. Check the surrounds on the mids; if the foams are dry rotted or beginning to crumble and fail, they can easily be replaced.

If they're in good shape, the old Technics gear should work okay, with one significant exception. To really sound their best, all vintage Infinity's need an amp that is capable of producing large amounts of current and are stable operating at 2 ohms or so. AFAIK, Technics is not knows for producing such equipment. Look for a used amp of about 200 wpc from the likes of Adcom, Aragon, Soundcraftsmen, Yamaha M-series, SAE, Forte, Threshold, etc. Until you can replace the Technics amp, be very careful with the volume control, as overdriving the Technics to clipping can destroy the EMIT tweeters.

Good luck with the RS-II's. I really hope you decide to restore them to their full glory. Properly set up and operating, there are few speakers made today that sell for <$8K-$10K or so that can match them.

 

[MaxSeven]

Thank you for the input -- it is clear you have extensive knowledge of Infinity products.

I was thinking of getting a Mcintosh MC2105 to drive the RSII's, but I was a little suspicious of the connection array on the back of the unit.

Is there a replacement woofer that would match the originals though?

 

[Tedrick]

Thank you for the input -- it is clear you have extensive knowledge of Infinity products.

I was thinking of getting a Mcintosh MC2105 to drive the RSII's, but I was a little suspicious of the connection array on the back of the unit.

Is there a replacement woofer that would match the originals though?

Harman/Infinity does not make a factory replacement woofer anymore for these. The PN for this woofer is 904-4976 (original) or 904-2279 (factory replacement). This woofer was used in a number of Infinity models from that era. What you will have to do is watch eBay for someone parting out some Infinity speakers of that vintage that used this same 10-inch woofer. Also keep an eye out for someone selling speakers at yardsales or on Craigslist that have these woofers in them. I also suggest you visit Infinity Classics website, which has a wealth of information, including owners manuals and tech sheets for dozens of classic Infinity speakers. Those reference materials might help you with your connection questions.

Also, if you'd like to increase your chances of getting more input on anything related to Infinity speakers, please check out the Infinity forum right here on AK. You'll find it further down the main page. Post your questions and experiences in there where all the Infinity afficianados on AK hang out and your bound to get more feedback.

 

[MaxSeven]

Thanks again Tedrick.

 

[Ray134]

I have a pair or RS 2.5's and the foam fell apart on them. The company that made them for Infinity at the time was Watkins Engineering. They don't have replacement woofers but they are the people to talk to about fixing the ones you have. Nothing wrong with CV speakers however they belong in a different place than your Infinities.
Good luck and don't throw out that old equipment. In a lot of cases the advances in technology have produced better equipment from a manufacture's profit point of view or more convenience ( MP3) but not better sound. The laws of physics don't change just because an audio manufacturer comes up with a new idea.

 

[ToddG]

The PN for this woofer is 904-4976 (original) or 904-2279 (factory replacement).

Tedrick, according to the tech sheet and the actual part numbers from my RS-II's (I refoamed 'em last year) is #902-2279A please see the attach tech manual.
c-ya
ToddG

 

[titanstats]

I'd love a pair of those! Keep them for sure -- as Tedrick already said, you'll have to spend an awful lot of coin on new speakers to match them.

 

[MaxSeven]

Oh my, I am laughing hysterically laughing at the avatar of ToddG -- I love it! Jack -- 'all work and no play' The image looks far more insane than an actual screen capture of that scene, as the hot spots (eyes, nose and mouth) in the avatar are really punching out at you. Nice.

Max

 

[MaxSeven]

Titan, is that a Marantz 2600 in your avatar? Do you have one? I want it!

 

[MaxSeven]

I have a pair or RS 2.5's and the foam fell apart on them. The company that made them for Infinity at the time was Watkins Engineering. They don't have replacement woofers but they are the people to talk to about fixing the ones you have. Nothing wrong with CV speakers however they belong in a different place than your Infinities.
Good luck and don't throw out that old equipment. In a lot of cases the advances in technology have produced better equipment from a manufacture's profit point of view or more convenience ( MP3) but not better sound. The laws of physics don't change just because an audio manufacturer comes up with a new idea.

I agree whole heartedly -- if I would replace everything, I would just buy vintage used. But! I was browsing the new Mcintosh stuff at my local HiFi dealer today, and I was very very tempted.

 

[titanstats]

Max, that's a 2500 in the avatar -- have a couple of those. I want a 2600 too, but they are damn hard to find! Have been reminding a fellow on a regular basis that he should sell me his, and go buy a new stereo, though. Don't go into the Mac forum -- MasterLu and the other boys will give you a debilitating case of McIntosh Disease. I have experienced its effects myself!

 

[Tedrick]

Tedrick, according to the tech sheet and the actual part numbers from my RS-II's (I refoamed 'em last year) is #902-2279A please see the attach tech manual.
c-ya
ToddG

I could be wrong about 902-4976 as the stock PN (although there was a recent thread on AK where someone was asking about this very part, and the consensus was that the 2279 was the correct replacement), but please see the tech sheets for the RS-IIa/b and RS-IIIa/b, which all use the same woofer as the RS-II. Both sheets show the 902-2279A as "Substitute." The RS-IIIb sheet even shows the stock woofer as NLA (No Longer Available). Of course, we also know that Infinity was rather 'loose' about subbing parts in and out and keeping their tech sheets current, so .... .

 

[ToddG]

There are 2 RS-IIb woofs right now for a buy it now price (150) on that big auction site.
c-ya
ToddG

 

[Arkay]

Definitely put back ORIGINAL woofers in those RS IIs. Those drivers area different design, NOT the same as regular Cerwin-Vega woofers, and --especially if no serious modification was done to the crossovers-- there will be little to compare in the sound.

Those speakers are definitely worth restoring properly. You might even consider upgrading them eventually with bi-amping (a good way to protect the tweeters from burning out when the current-hungry woofers drive an amp into clipping!), but that involves some work on the crossovers. Find someone who really knows what they are doing to guide you through it, if you decide to go that way.

There are some caps in the crossovers you should have checked, ideally with an ESR meter, and replace them if they are aging badly/off spec. Or maybe just upgrade them, anyway. IF you really want to go further, you can experiment with putting felt on the baffle (curved board) to absorb reflections, and with upgrading the internal wire (not really necessary). I'd suggest listening to them withOUT the grill covers, and do pay attention to postioning: these guys need to be several feet away from the back wall, and toed-in a bit. Experiment to find the best position in your room.

Tedrik wrote that there are "few speakers made today that sell for <$8K-$10K or so that can match them." I'Ve heard a few new speakers that cost a lot MORE than that price level, that still didn't best these. They are true audiophile speakers, extremely revealing and very musical, although not very forgiving of any weaknesses in the source material. I think you will need better/more suitable gear to drive them then what you have mentioned. Search the archives in the Infinity forum for more detailed advice about these speakers and what can/should drive them. In the meantime, even if you get them fixed up, DO NOT play them at higher volume levels UNTIL and UNLESS you have amp(s) that you KNOW can feed them properly; i.e., high-current, low-impedance-tolerant amp(s). By the time you hear that damage is being done/has been done, it will be too late. Don't risk it. Do it right. These wonderful speakers deserve that much. Feed them right and they will reward you.

I hope you show your appreciation to your parents, for giving you these great old speakers. Some of us fortunate enough to own these speakers LOVE THEM! :yes: Welcome to the group! :thmbsp:

 

[ToddG]

Definitely put back ORIGINAL woofers in those RS IIs.

I agree 100%. Even if they did match sonically, it would irritate me to no end looking at a CV cone with a red ring (if they are still made that way).:tears:
c-ya
ToddG

 

[MaxSeven]

Thanks so much for all the good advice!

So, I have unearthed the RSII's and set them up in my basement for a makeshift listening area. When I set everything up and fired up the components to test -- I instantly noticed the left speaker's mids were not working. When I fiddled with the pot, they crackled, and after several full rotations of the pot, it came alive. I listened to several selections at light volume, and increased the volume slightly. The left mids start to crackle again.

So I unscrewed the service hatch on the back to access the crossover. The connection was loose, I soldered it and tested again. Same thing.

I suppose I'll need to replace the pots on the mid's, OR can I just bridge the connection and avoid that already? I bet not.

The amp did clip a few times when I had tracks with heavy bass. So it seems clear that I need a more powerful amp (as suggested).

Should I redo the entire crossover? What if I cannot find original replacement drivers and/or mids for the RSII's -- can I just use high-end replacements? Although I think the mids are fine.

When I listened to a few tracks from Klaus Badelt (Pirates of the Carribean) - the C-V's seemed to really sing with the original equipment - they sounded fantastic!

Just went down again and listened to several selections and there was no crackling or clipping - very weird.

Picture attached showing my set-up (temporary).

 

[titanstats]

Have you given the pots a good shot of deoxit? Should clear up the crackle -- it's unlikely that you'll need to replace them. Good looking speaks, BTW -- wish my folks had bought a pair to shoot my way!

 

[westend]

If the speakers have not been used for a while the caps are probably reforming on the crossovers. I've had a few come back to life after a couple of days of powering them. Also, the mid control is probably full of dust and oxidation. Around AK, the cleaner of choice is Caig Deoxit D5. It's available at Guitar Center and electronics distributors. A few squirts into the control and work the knob back and forth about 100 times and it won't crackle anymore.

 

[Arkay]

Yes, Caig's DeOxit is the stuff to use. Good idea to follow it with Caig's Faderlube, to provide added protection against further oxidation. Also agree that you should give 'em a few days playing to "wake up and burn in" again, BUT I would not do it with the sources you have. You'll have to get new amps. You owe it to yourself to get better source sound than an iPod, too -- although I know that was probably just for testing purposes. Those Inifinities are revealing enough to make the limitations of MP3 sound, or even FLAC lossless digital --if it isn't a great mastering-- quite audible.

If it is any consolation (for needing to find a more suitable amp), it was finding those same speakers and needing to get amps, etc... that revived my interest in and pursuit of, vintage audio. Getting them turned out to be the most expensive free find I've ever made, I guess. Once you get 'em all set up right, it WILL be worth it, though. :yes:

If I were you, I would pursue the original woofers, to replace those CVs. The CVs may sound okay now, but I think you'll find the original Infinity woofers to be better.

Nice space, and the speakers look very good. Enjoy it all! :thmbsp: