Resuscitating my Thorens TD-125 and looking for suggestions

[fiddlefye]

So in a brief update - springs have arrived, feet on the way and an arm board being made up. Progress!

Next I need to decide on a cart to run on the FR-24 MkII. For starters I'll probably dig out a lightish shell and mount my Empire 2000Z, but I would like to get to a MC of some sort before long. Whatever I end up with can't be too heavy or I'll have to use a lighter shell as I don't have a really heavy counterweight. Should have bought one of the brass ones when the guy in Australia had them on ebay, but didn't get around to it before he ran out. I do have an Ortofon MC 10 Super kicking around that I could get retipped (pretty nice cart if I recall, but I haven't heard it in a dozen years and memory will be dim), though I'd love some suggestions if anyone has any. I've got a Benz Glider on one table already, a Gold on another and a Grado Reference 1 Sonata on a third, so something in the basic range of colour, but different?

 

[elcoholic]

If it's just armboards for 125 look up AK member Elcoholic. He makes some nice boards for the 125.

Thanks Bob.

 

[fiddlefye]

Thanks Bob.

Looking forward to the board!

 

[fiddlefye]

Ok, another question to throw out there. As I probably already mentioned, the mirror in the strobe went walkies when the table went flying. I've got a new bit of mirror cut, but am wondering what to use for glue? I've been looking online and most of what I find refers to gluing a mirror on a wall. Anyone have any suggestions as to what sort of glue might work best? Whatever it is can't mess with the silvering on the back of the mirror.

 

[bob06]

Ok, another question to throw out there. As I probably already mentioned, the mirror in the strobe went walkies when the table went flying. I've got a new bit of mirror cut, but am wondering what to use for glue? I've been looking online and most of what I find refers to gluing a mirror on a wall. Anyone have any suggestions as to what sort of glue might work best? Whatever it is can't mess with the silvering on the back of the mirror.

Adhesive caulking. A little dab will do ya.

 

[fiddlefye]

Adhesive caulking. A little dab will do ya.

As in the stuff in the general category of what one uses in the bath? It sure won't take much, partly because it is a tiny bit of glass and partly because there is zero stress on the piece once it is in there.

I'm really getting pretty excited about this thing being up and running soon. It actually sat in the closet a couple of years before I could look at it. I cleaned as much of the crap off it as I could at the time and then it was just too traumatic to look at. I think it is going to end up sounding far better than it ever has at any point in its existence, though.

 

[bob06]

All purpose. In comes in a squeeze tube. Any hardware store carries it. It works great. I always have a tube on hand. I would get the clear one.

 

[fiddlefye]

All purpose. In comes in a squeeze tube. Any hardware store carries it. It works great. I always have a tube on hand. I would get the clear one.

I gots a gazillion tubes of stuff down in the depths. I'll have a look and see if any of them are what I need. If not, a quick hardware store trip is in order. Once I have the mirror in place and now that I have the spring set I can put things together, put the belt on and check to see if the speed control circuit needs any tweaking before i get to final assembly. My tech set it up the circuit to the service manual specs, but said it might still need some adjustment when it all is in situ. Better to do that if necessary before rather than after it is all carefully set up.

 

[arts]

Fid,what condition is the circuitry and especially the PCB traces for the speed switching in? I'm thinking this might be a good time for a refresh/rebuild.Smoke,water and the fire dept using it as a football couldn't have been good for anything under the hood

 

[fiddlefye]

Fid,what condition is the circuitry and especially the PCB traces for the speed switching in? I'm thinking this might be a good time for a refresh/rebuild.Smoke,water and the fire dept using it as a football couldn't have been good for anything under the hood

All redone by my tech when he rebuilt the board after it was cracked up. The board was in three pieces after the guys got through with it, but it is all back thoroughly mended, recapped and adjusted to the values in the service manual. Once I have things running and see where it all works out there might need to be a bit of tweaking get done - analogue circuits can be like that!

 

[arts]

Thats good to hear.A lot of techs look at a broken board and don't want anything to do with it;glad your guy persevered!

When it comes to the adjustments,I got so fed up with doing them on my bench stand that I developed the trick shown in the photo: I leave off the bottom cover of the TD-125 (mine are 0.125 aluminum,with a punched hole pattern for ventilation and damping material to kill any resonance),remove the deck of my wall mount,then I sit the table on sticks for support. I grab my short,wheeled mechanics stool from the garage,and me and my meter just roll on under.Kinda silly,but it saves a lot of time and effort

 

[fiddlefye]

Thats good to hear.A lot of techs look at a broken board and don't want anything to do with it;glad your guy persevered!

When it comes to the adjustments,I got so fed up with doing them on my bench stand that I developed the trick shown in the photo: I leave off the bottom cover of the TD-125 (mine are 0.125 aluminum,with a punched hole pattern for ventilation and damping material to kill any resonance),remove the deck of my wall mount,then I sit the table on sticks for support. I grab my short,wheeled mechanics stool from the garage,and me and my meter just roll on under.Kinda silly,but it saves a lot of time and effort

View attachment 1015133

Great idea, using the ol' noggin for sure. That table looks super and I'll wager that with that arm on it the sound is as good as the looks. One of the most underrated arms in this day and age I'd say. Mine is going to end up with this on it:

My tech is flat out wonderful - talented, skilled and incredibly well-versed. The work on my board was really a romp in the park for him compared to some things I've seen him do. I count my blessings regularly and my gear does as well!

My 125 has never had a bottom plate, came to me that way. I gather at one point in history there was a trend to doing away with them. I haven't decided to do a new one of Baltic birch or something or just leave it open and lay some sound absorbent material under the deck as I've always done in past.

 

[arts]

Thanks Fid I have my good friend Nigel to thank for the Tiger Maple plinth,and he did an absolutely gorgeous job of it.My terrible photo does it no justice at all.I leave the fancy cabinet work to him,he leaves the machining and electronics to me. Sticking to what we do best keeps us both out of trouble,haha.Mind,you should watch him balance a triple-carb E-Type......

I couldn't agree more re the Series III tonearm.Thankfully,people who don't/won't understand it (or can't be bothered to read the manual!) have been bashing these arms for decades,which has kept the prices low.I have always been a high-compliance MM fan,and this is my preferred arm.Although presently that arm is mounted on my newly acquired Michell Gyro SE,I have an SME 3009 Series II Improved (fixed headshell) that will be replacing it on the TD-125.It will definitely have a more ''classic'' look with that model mounted on it.

Other than knowing that they're a darned fine arm with a great reputation,I have never been able to find any manufacturer info whatsoever on the Fidelity Research arms. Where does it fall in the mass range? I gotta say,that stick is going to look killer on your TD-125! (good grief,do we ALL sit our tonearms in a glass for photos?)

Neither of my TD-125's came with a bottom plate.Considering how flimsy and undamped they were,I gather they were just there to keep fingers away from the voltages,although I can't imagine them having a positive effect on the sound,maybe thus the removal trend. I went with the aluminum as I have it readily available,and the added sound deadening material completely damps any vibration. Made mounting the feet a cinch,and added even more rigidity to the already solid plinth too.

 

[fiddlefye]

Thanks Fid I have my good friend Nigel to thank for the Tiger Maple plinth,and he did an absolutely gorgeous job of it.My terrible photo does it no justice at all.I leave the fancy cabinet work to him,he leaves the machining and electronics to me. Sticking to what we do best keeps us both out of trouble,haha.Mind,you should watch him balance a triple-carb E-Type......

I couldn't agree more re the Series III tonearm.Thankfully,people who don't/won't understand it (or can't be bothered to read the manual!) have been bashing these arms for decades,which has kept the prices low.I have always been a high-compliance MM fan,and this is my preferred arm.Although presently that arm is mounted on my newly acquired Michell Gyro SE,I have an SME 3009 Series II Improved (fixed headshell) that will be replacing it on the TD-125.It will definitely have a more ''classic'' look with that model mounted on it.

Other than knowing that they're a darned fine arm with a great reputation,I have never been able to find any manufacturer info whatsoever on the Fidelity Research arms. Where does it fall in the mass range? I gotta say,that stick is going to look killer on your TD-125! (good grief,do we ALL sit our tonearms in a glass for photos?)

Neither of my TD-125's came with a bottom plate.Considering how flimsy and undamped they were,I gather they were just there to keep fingers away from the voltages,although I can't imagine them having a positive effect on the sound,maybe thus the removal trend. I went with the aluminum as I have it readily available,and the added sound deadening material completely damps any vibration. Made mounting the feet a cinch,and added even more rigidity to the already solid plinth too.

Hah, yes. I think we all stick our arms in a glass for their "beauty shots". Better than seeing my hand holding it up, I figure.

The Mitchell/Series III ought to be terrific. I had a removable headshell Improved on my Ariston RD11s and recently traded it for a Nottingham Interspace which came with the table originally. I'm super pleased with the switch, both in terms of sonics and looks.
DSC_7638 by fiddlefye, on Flickr
Change is good once in awhile anyway. The guy I swapped with will be putting the SME on a TD-124, so another classic look like you've got in mind.

I forget the exact mass of the FR (it was tough to find and the stat was on a hard drive that died), but it was in the mid-mass range. Info is hard to find, mostly because the arm was apparently strictly a home-market item, what is out there is in Japanese. There do seem to be a surprising number made it to Canada for some reason. Add a light shell and you could run a V-15III or something, heavy shell and you're into the lower compliance MC carts. I'm going to start out with an Empire 2000Z in a light shell and then see where it goes from there. Folks run some higher-end MC carts on the arm as a rule, though.

I wish aluminum were more easily available to me. A piece I got last year to do an arm board arrangement on my Technics SP-15 set me back $15. Not sure which alloy it was, but it was remarkably hard stuff. A piece big enough for a bottom plate would be a huge price where I get things like that. I also wonder if part of the reason for ditching the bottom plate might not have been just to make working on the suspension an easier job? If the thing isn't serving any really useful purpose and just gets in the way, why keep it?

BTW, what did you use for acoustic damping? I'm thinking of putting some of the vinyl Sonic Barrier stuff from PArts Express on the top of the plate that mounts all the guts and maybe the bottom of the top plate, though I'm not sure how wise the latter might be.

 

[Blue Shadow]

Good to see some progress on this table. Fortunately that board isn't so complicated that it can't be repaired by a decent tech. Glad you have one that gets your jobs done.

Not everyone uses a glass to hold a tonearm. And the FR-24 mk II did have some English language sales info but no effective mass. One web source thought it was about 17 grams or so. I guess a test record would help to determine this using a known compliance cartridge.



I've got a couple spare bottom covers for the 125, nothing impressive about that piece of Masonite. The TD-160 Super has a nice bottom cover. Maybe I ought to glue these three together and sandwich a chunk of Dynamat between the layers. That should deaden the sound.

 

[arts]

BTW, what did you use for acoustic damping? I'm thinking of putting some of the vinyl Sonic Barrier stuff from PArts Express on the top of the plate that mounts all the guts and maybe the bottom of the top plate, though I'm not sure how wise the latter might be.

Sorry for the delayed reply,I just started a new job and have had a million things on the go.Finally,a few minutes of peace and quiet!

The damping material I use was leftovers from when I was involved in the manufacture of imaging devices for Hewlett Packards Medical Division.This type was used to line the cabinets of ultrasound machines,and is from The Soundcoat Company. This product is from their ''Soundfoam'' line. Not only very effective,it was also free

The Sonic Barrier stuff looks like a good product,and seems reasonably priced as well.

http://www.soundcoat.com/soundcoatabsorbers.pdf

 

[fiddlefye]

Sorry for the delayed reply,I just started a new job and have had a million things on the go.Finally,a few minutes of peace and quiet!

The damping material I use was leftovers from when I was involved in the manufacture of imaging devices for Hewlett Packards Medical Division.This type was used to line the cabinets of ultrasound machines,and is from The Soundcoat Company. This product is from their ''Soundfoam'' line. Not only very effective,it was also free

The Sonic Barrier stuff looks like a good product,and seems reasonably priced as well.

http://www.soundcoat.com/soundcoatabsorbers.pdf

View attachment 1018646 View attachment 1018649 View attachment 1018653 View attachment 1018656

Free is always good, if not always "best"!

 

[elcoholic]

Looking forward to the board!

Here’s a peak at your board fiddlefye. It’s too late to fire up the machinery tonight. I wanted to see the figure on this chunk of maple so I did some hand planing. I think it will definitely fill the bill. It should yield 3 stacks of thick veneer. Enough for a half dozen arm boards.

 

[fiddlefye]

Here’s a peak at your board fiddlefye. It’s too late to fire up the machinery tonight. I wanted to see the figure on this chunk of maple so I did some hand planing. I think it will definitely fill the bill. It should yield 3 stacks of thick veneer. Enough for a half dozen arm boards.

View attachment 1020896 View attachment 1020897

Wow, looks great! Thanks for the preview. I need to remember to do a tracing of the base of the arm, take some exact measurements and scan it. Always in my mind when I'm in the middle of doing something else!

 

[bob06]

Here’s a peak at your board fiddlefye. It’s too late to fire up the machinery tonight. I wanted to see the figure on this chunk of maple so I did some hand planing. I think it will definitely fill the bill. It should yield 3 stacks of thick veneer. Enough for a half dozen arm boards.

View attachment 1020896 View attachment 1020897

I knew you could do it.