Return of the original Miniwatt SET ( APPJ )

Poultrygeist - given the fact that one of these SET's and an Audiobah TPA-3116 are completely different animals, what do you perceive in the difference in SQ between the two, when running a set of Zu's or OB's?

I wonder how the MW at ~$200 compares to the Dared at ~$1,000?

How much SQ should we expect from the MW on an absolute basis?

Seems that we would stick to FR drivers to avoid having to run through a passive crossover?
 
The Audiobah TPA-3116 with Astron PS fronted by a tube preamp is certainly comparable and allows far greater speaker choices. But there's so much to love about the diminutive MW.

The MW is more detailed and with my Tekton 4.5 on stands in near field I absolutely craved the sound of small group jazz.

While the small driver Tektons are more detailed than the Omens ( Lores ) their soundstage with the MW is nowhere near as full. Not as much of an issue if you listen to small groups. Joe Pass's guitar solo's are incredible.

With the MW I enjoyed hearing the spit build up in Mile's horn or the tinkling glasses and back ground conversation in "Jazz At The Pawnshop". Even got into barbershop quartets as I could hear every breath between notes.

The TPA plays louder, sounds fatter, but a tad less refined but it also shares many of the SET virtues. It does not have all of the tube goodness with a tube preamp and I didn't say lushness as the MW is not a bit syrupy sounding. Both are more revealing than I've ever heard from any ss amps including the Classe I owned for a short while.

As inexpensive as these two amps are I'd suggest owning both.
 
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Seems that it would be possible, with careful matching of the associated components, to get high-end sound for mid-fi dollars.
 
I agree with everything Poultrygeist said in comparing the TPA's vs. the Miniwatt. I've got a few TPA amps and a MW too. On my high sensitivity speakers, I definitely prefer the Miniwatt. One caveat is that the volume tracking on mine is pretty bad...the soundstage shifts depending on where the volume control is so the center image will move around. It's irritating if you really like your imaging nailed down.

Compared to a couple of Decware single ended amps I have, the Miniwatt sounds "smaller" for lack of a better word. It's not a loudness thing, it's just that all the images within the soundstage are all in a smaller plane than with the other amps. There's a liquidity and a more natural sound to the more expensive amps as well and those amps really lock in the images within the soundstage better than the Miniwatt which also has just a bit of sizzle on the top which will at times accentuate sibilance on some recordings in my system.

Although I have the WE403B's in my MW, I haven't yet installed the replacement 6P1PEV's which will probably make things a little better.

The MW is a really fun little amp and I've enjoyed it more than my TPA's. If you can swing one, it's worth a listen.
 
Has anyone else besides Poultrygeist compared the 4 tube Miniwatt in this thread to the newer 3-tube version (APPJ PA0901A 6N4+6P14)?

Just curious, as Poultrygeist said he compared them and liked the 4 tube version better, but I *think* there were stock tubes in the 3-tube model, so wondering how the 3-tube one might compare with better tubes.
 
The N3 APPJ/MW is the one I listened to and it had two EL84's and a single 12AX7. Don't recall if the tubes had been upgraded. It was a little more powerful than my S1 and sounded very good. I think there are several reviews online.

I think it sells for more than the model under discussion.
 
The N3 APPJ/MW is the one I listened to and it had two EL84's and a single 12AX7. Don't recall if the tubes had been upgraded. It was a little more powerful than my S1 and sounded very good. I think there are several reviews online.

I think it sells for more than the model under discussion.

Thanks. I have a friend of a friend willing to sell his N3 for the same price as the 4 tube amp in this thread - you said your preferred the 4 tube. Was just looking for other data points to help me decide whether I should consider the N3, as I may not be able to demo the N3 before the return period on the 4 tube is over.

Been meaning to ask you - what is the diode mod you spoke of? There's a cap mod spoken if too. Did a search and can't find any actual how-to's on how to do this.
 
As I recall the diode mod was popular on the old Hornshoppe Horns forum. Mine was done by a friend in just a few minutes.

There may be some pictures but it would be of the original MW which has the tranny covers on top.
 
Received my Gemtune mini 2013 in the mail yesterday in silver. No hum, which is great.

Running them on recapped Forte I's with Crites Ti tweeter diaphragms. I received my WE 403B's, but the Sovtek tubes are coming from Russia, so that'll take a bit.

By itself and in absence of any A/B reference point, it sounds good. But I'm trying to put some hours on it before judging sound quality vs the recapped Marantz 1060 that was driving the Fortes. Not sure what owners here have found wrt burn in time, but I read some comments on the general web that it sounded better with some time on it.

I will say that the 2.5W is easily enough for my Fortes in my master bedroom. I'm at 9 o'clock for general pleasant listening level and only could go to say 1 o'clock yesterday before feeling it was at a louder volume than I enjoyed listening.

I'm quite happy with the purchase and if burn in and the tube upgrades elevate the sound noticebly, I'll be very very pleased. For the $, it's great bang for the buck.
 
I been listening to mine this AM and the lastcouple days a few hrs.
It sounds pretty good with the stock tubes. waiting for moscow/putin to get with the program.
But no complaints here so far. It makes my tekton lore 2s come alive pretty well.
 
Received my Gemtune mini 2013 in the mail yesterday in silver. No hum, which is great.

Running them on recapped Forte I's with Crites Ti tweeter diaphragms. I received my WE 403B's, but the Sovtek tubes are coming from Russia, so that'll take a bit.

By itself and in absence of any A/B reference point, it sounds good. But I'm trying to put some hours on it before judging sound quality vs the recapped Marantz 1060 that was driving the Fortes. Not sure what owners here have found wrt burn in time, but I read some comments on the general web that it sounded better with some time on it.

I will say that the 2.5W is easily enough for my Fortes in my master bedroom. I'm at 9 o'clock for general pleasant listening level and only could go to say 1 o'clock yesterday before feeling it was at a louder volume than I enjoyed listening.

I'm quite happy with the purchase and if burn in and the tube upgrades elevate the sound noticebly, I'll be very very pleased. For the $, it's great bang for the buck.

I ran it for most of the day today and probably have a good 10-15hrs on it.

I decided to do a little comparing vs the Marantz 1060. There's a pretty noticeable difference.

The Miniwatt sounds fairly lean and less smooth by comparison. Somewhat shouty at times, whereas the Marantz was warmer and fuller. So I went ahead and put in the WE 403B's and am letting them play for awhile. Only a couple of hours on the WE's so far.

Not 100% sure, but it does seem better. But still a little lean/shouty. The 6P1P-EV tubes I bought (that haven't arrived yet) are actually Svetlana (not Sovtek as I said in an earlier post) - we'll see what that does in a couple of weeks when they arrive.

This is the first SET amp I've ever heard. My expectation was that SET is supposed to be warm, supple/smooth/magic midrange, perhaps a little bass light and a little rolled off. I'm not hearing that midrange magic so far.
 
the SETs you have heard raves about are NOT the ones you buy from china , but the ones loveingly built DIY such as the "Darling" amp or others Mfr'd here in the past.
they usually have those big tubes, OA2(I think) come to mind. Im no expert on the variety of tubes used in SET amps but they are not like the ones in the MW.
I'v only had a fleeting glimps at a Darling and it's sound qualities when I 1st beacme interested in what tubes were all about. But as a novice I couldnt really judge its SET'y sound qualities. All I know is it did sound very good but couldnt tell you why or how.
So take this MW with a grain of salt and accept it for what it is. I know it doesnt hold a candle to my Fishers, magnavox or Dynaco amps. Even that little TPA3116 blows it away IMO. You will have to go with something far better than the MW to get those qualities you are seeking especially in the $$ dept.
Thats my story and Im stiking to it.

PS: besides, the Darling only put out only 0.75 of a watt.
 
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Well.....if you want to spend the $$$, a good 45, 2a3, 300b, 805 or 845 based SET amp will give you what you are looking for at a MUCH higher price.

Also, the MW is not a SET (Single Ended Triode) amp as the 6BQ5 is not a triode..

Can the MW, with better tubes, provide the basis for a SE based system?

What percentage of the magic you get with the true SET amps can be extracted from the MW?

What are the best components to match up with the MW to complement what it does well and minimize what it does not do well?

These are the questions that, IMHO, will answer whether the MW (in one or both of the currently available versions) is a viable option for one to build a 'high end system on a budget'.....

I would grab one to see how much performance I can get for ~$200 but I am trying to stay focused on my latest OB build,

Can't let my 'audio ADD' take over..... ;) :)
 
Is that what the tall tube is, just a 6bq5? HMMM. Interesting.
But what you said tubehfn is spot on IMO. A tru quality SET amp is gonna set ya bak a $ or 2. Some day I would like have one. But which one? Any advice here?
For now the MW is a cute little toy and I enjoy its qualities but wouldnt buy another. Give me a good old 20W or so PP amp and Im happy. They make my Tektons sing like angles.
 
Well.....if you want to spend the $$$, a good 45, 2a3, 300b, 805 or 845 based SET amp will give you what you are looking for at a MUCH higher price.

Also, the MW is not a SET (Single Ended Triode) amp as the 6BQ5 is not a triode..

Can the MW, with better tubes, provide the basis for a SE based system?

What percentage of the magic you get with the true SET amps can be extracted from the MW?

What are the best components to match up with the MW to complement what it does well and minimize what it does not do well?

These are the questions that, IMHO, will answer whether the MW (in one or both of the currently available versions) is a viable option for one to build a 'high end system on a budget'.....

I would grab one to see how much performance I can get for ~$200 but I am trying to stay focused on my latest OB build,

Can't let my 'audio ADD' take over..... ;) :)

You may be thinking of the 3 tube APPJ amp (N3?) that sells for above $200 and uses 2 x 6BQ5's and one 12AX7, IIRC. The one I got is the $136 one that uses 4 tubes: 2 x 6p1p and 2 x 403B. Supposd to be like the original Miniwatt and I *think* a true SET?

Your questions are all good ones though, and I don't know the answers. Just reporting my own thoughts so far based on limited burn in time (if that matters at all) and with a particular set of speakers (Klipsch Fortes), which is really my only high efficiency option. I'd be easy to try them on my A25's as well, but I suspect they won't go very loud with those.

Right, I know the tube type can make a big difference in sound, and right now I have a mix of new/cheap (6p1p that came with the amp) and vintage (WE 403B). Still, I would have thought that the architecture itself (SE) would influence sound quite a bit. Maybe not.

To the extent that tubes 'make' the sound, I can see how spending $2k on a 300B SET amp where the tubes make up a big piece of the cost can account for the delta. What I don't know is what other elements of a $2K amp (besides the tube cost) make a huge difference in resulting sound.

The jury is still out for me. I'm thinking additional tube upgrades will improve things to some degree. I'm always intrigued by the so-called giant killer pieces of gear.
 
Transformers ect. make for a quality SET amp and not just the tubes, it would take pages to describe how each impact the sound so i will leave it with this one sentence.

Several years ago i got caught up in the TPA3116 and MW craze and while it was fun the realization is that it was only for fun and good sound for the price.

The MW is a fun little $150 amp but no way is it a replacement for my LM 518IA, i wish it were at over 50 times the MW price. Bottom line is the sound.
 
FWIW, the APPJ N3 (Miniwatt) is a single ended ultralinear tube amp that uses EL84 tubes and a 12AX7. It is not SET (single ended directly heated triode). I have one, and with the NOS Sylvania tubes I have in mine it sounds pretty good, but it cannot match my Stereomour 2A3 SET. That said, I really like my miniwatt. Hard to beat the little guy for the money.
 
The original four tube MW S1 is a SET while the N3 three tube is single ended ( SEP ).

HR67,

Unlike traditional tube amps these amps use a switching mode power supply.

"Caught up in the MW craze"?- Have you owned one or are you just speculating?

I doubt you owned a TPA3116 several years ago as they haven't been around that long.
 
The original four tube MW S1 is a SET while the N3 three tube is single ended ( SEP ).

HR67,

Unlike traditional tube amps these amps use a switching mode power supply.

"Caught up in the MW craze"?- Have you owned one or are you just speculating?

I doubt you owned a TPA3116 several years ago as they haven't been around that long.

I would not say anything unless i had first hand knowledge.:confused: As i have no agenda one way or the other all i have to offer is my experience.

I replied to a question that was asked and i answered it honestly. The sound that he is looking for will not come from a MW. There is no short cut to getting SET sound.
 
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