Returning to Mid-fi After Owning High End Gear (on purpose)

Let us be honest.Technology in electronics has started blurring the line between Lo and Hi Fi. At the end of the chain sits the loudspeaker.Unchanged technical principals for many years.So with front end and amplifiers there is not much in it,but be careful with down grading speakers, as they make the most difference in the audio system..In my opinion,this is where 70% of your Hi Fi budget should be spent,as this still involves good old fashioned design and production material quality.
 
Let us be honest.Technology in electronics has started blurring the line between Lo and Hi Fi. At the end of the chain sits the loudspeaker.Unchanged technical principals for many years.So with front end and amplifiers there is not much in it,but be careful with down grading speakers, as they make the most difference in the audio system..In my opinion,this is where 70% of your Hi Fi budget should be spent,as this still involves good old fashioned design and production material quality.
I for the most part agree. However Cart and Preamp can have a huge impact on your sonic footprint as well.
 
So here is the question for this thread. Will poorly recorded music really sound worse on great equipment than mediocre equipment? (trying to steer clear of the mid fi term here) I'm just having a difficult time buying that a bad recording will sound better on lesser equipment. I have heard the remark how the musician trips over the guitar cord, but is that sort of thing really what defines what is generally considered a bad recording?
 
So here is the question for this thread. Will poorly recorded music really sound worse on great equipment than mediocre equipment? (trying to steer clear of the mid fi term here) I'm just having a difficult time buying that a bad recording will sound better on lesser equipment. I have heard the remark how the musician trips over the guitar cord, but is that sort of thing really what defines what is generally considered a bad recording?
I think for the most part crap recording or mixing is crap recording or mixing.

I run two tables. I use both often. My Pioneer Pl530 sports either a Goldring 1042 or a sure M97xe. The sure rolls just a touch of the highs off. This actually works to my advantage with 80's glassy, over processed sounding recordings. For me it makes a big portion of the music I love sound great.

For really good recordings I much prefer my Roksan table with an AT33ptgii. It brings out a lot more detail, but for poorly conceived 80's pop and rock it's to detailed.
 
I just listened to a good copy of Deju Vu on my Thorens TD-147 with a Denon DL-301 MkII + Paradigms and a few of the songs sounded good but others, not so much. 'Took the album over to my less resolving Thorens TD-125 MkII with a Denon Dl-103 + Large Advents and to my ear, it was an overall better listening experience.

Now listening to America's "Hearts" on the 147. Very nice!
 
Being compassionate and kind like I am, I'd like to do my part and help you guys on your journey. You just send your obnoxious over the top high end audio gear to good ole Funky54. I will relieve your pain. I will take one for the team.

Sir your noble sentiment has really moved me. I cannot in good conscience let you take on this task all by yourself. Guys, if you're hesitant because you think Funky54 isn't up to the task all by himself, I am here to humbly help him in his quest. Just send me a note about which piece of too-good-gear you are about to part with and I'll let you know whether you should send it to me or to good ole Funky54.
 
So here is the question for this thread. Will poorly recorded music really sound worse on great equipment than mediocre equipment? (trying to steer clear of the mid fi term here) I'm just having a difficult time buying that a bad recording will sound better on lesser equipment. I have heard the remark how the musician trips over the guitar cord, but is that sort of thing really what defines what is generally considered a bad recording?

Somtimes a crap recording can be improved with tone controls or EQ. My main rig has neither, not even a balance knob. The only tweak I can apply on my main rig is to up the level on the sub if the original recording is bass shy, but that's it.
 
Back to being somewhat serious, being on a limited budget you learn to spend carefully. I know what the weak links are in my system and if an upgrade makes what I listen to worse, it's not been an upgrade. Case in point. I have a Technics SL-1200MK2 that's been modded to a level that sounds really good with the "step above entry level" cart that's on it. To upgrade the deck further would take some serious coin. To replace it with a much better TT would take some very serious coin. I'd rather invest a few hundred in a better cart. AS long as it doesn't render large portions of my music collection unlistenable ;)
 
Sometimes a crap recording can be improved with tone controls or EQ. My main rig has neither, not even a balance knob. The only tweak I can apply on my main rig is to up the level on the sub if the original recording is bass shy, but that's it.

If a recording truly is crap ( a poorly recorded CD or a worn/badly scratched LP), I won't bother with it all. If it's just the bass or treble needs a boost or cut, that's why I insist on having tone controls. E.G. One of my favorite groups is Hiroshima. To me, all their CD's were well recorded and sounded very good. Then I saw them live and their music had such loud, clear and deep drum bass, their CD's played with the tone controls "flat" just didn't come close. With the system I had at the time it wasn't for my speaker's lack of woofer displacement or lack of amp power either.
 
If a recording truly is crap ( a poorly recorded CD or a worn/badly scratched LP), I won't bother with it all. If it's just the bass or treble needs a boost or cut, that's why I insist on having tone controls. E.G. One of my favorite groups is Hiroshima. To me, all their CD's were well recorded and sounded very good. Then I saw them live and their music had such loud, clear and deep drum bass, their CD's played with the tone controls "flat" just didn't come close. With the system I had at the time it wasn't for my speaker's lack of woofer displacement or lack of amp power either.
Did they have the Taiko drums on stage when you saw them live? That was one of the most impressive spectacles that I've ever witnessed. Loud, clear and deep indeed. :bowdown: :king:
 
Did they have the Taiko drums on stage when you saw them live? That was one of the most impressive spectacles that I've ever witnessed. Loud, clear and deep indeed. :bowdown: :king:

I didn't know what they (Taiko drums) were called until I just Googled them, but yeah, they had 'em.
 
GRIN! This cassette sounds terrible on the pro-Tascam in my stereo stack, I will listen to on that old 1965 $20 plastic tape recorder.

Somehow, I don't think that is going to make it sound better.
 
I've seen people with over $50k worth of vehicles living in a run down house.

Off topic, I know, but I have a colleague (fellow contractor) that has a "run down" house--or so you would think. His area is known for doing property tax re-assessments (and subsequent increases) far more frequently than most. So the outside of the house looks like a dump, but walk inside and it looks like a million dollar mansion--and yes, there are several hundred thousand dollars in collector cars and motorcycles in the run down barn out back. :thumbsup:
 
The last thing I want to do is go backwards. I started this crazy hobby about 5 years ago. I got the usual Gear aquisition syndrome,or GAS. After a lot of lateral moves and a lot of mediocer gear I've found a good fit for me and don't intend on chasing the dragon any more. I've got enough gear to fill up an 8x10 room,floor to ceiling and I want to get rid of it, whether I sell it ,gift it, or take it all to the dump (ours recycles this stuff). As far as the music goes the good recordings sound very good, The not so good ones are good enough, and the crappy ones ain't to bad either. The stuff I listen to most is/ Pioneer SX D7000 receiver, Dual 510 TT, and Luxman LX 104 MKII speakers. I wouldn't want to go back to my Sansui 771 setup of the past which at the time I liked quite a bit. My listening area is a 15x27 single bay shop and my resolution this year is to clear a lot of this stuff out of there so my poor old Belair doesn't have to spend another cold winter parked outside waiting for spring thaw. The downside of this would be losing my comfy listening area for a few months out of the year but I can work around that one. Sorry for the long winded post, just thinking out loud.
 
I took a few CDs to a dealer once and got to mess around with a system consisting primarily of KEF Blades and Parasound Halo separates. I've heard this system make excellent work of sound tracks and jazz. However when I put my CDs in, including one respected triphop album, everything sounded terrible. I didn't burn these from lossy files, they were the actual, store bought CDs. I talked about it with the sales rep, who knew I wasn't in the market for that kind of gear. We discussed how at a certain point a system can become so resolving, that every imperfection from say, a mediocre recording, or a bad mastering, can really ruin the whole experience.

In the future, regardless of earnings potential, I don't want to get to a point where I have to curate the kind of music I listen to so that it sounds good on the system I have. I'll stay a few rungs down the ladder if it means that I can listen to whatever I want, even if it means it's not being portrayed to my ears completely faithfully. Right now I'm far from that sweet spot except with headphones, I've had a few experiences with headphones that have really brought out the flaws in some recordings. So far though that hasn't turned me off to the recordings yet though.

Interesting, I've got some of that Halo gear, though not the top shelf models. I did have a pair of Paradigm Signature S6 with it and grew dissatisfied. Replacing the Oppo 95 with a Nad C565BEE helped, and upgrading from lamp cord cable, but I finally got rid of the super resolving Paradigms. Perhaps it is indeed my music collection that doesn't shine with high end gear. I've now got new speakers that retailed for only $1200, and better speaker cables too. The sound is quite satisfying. I'll put in the Sierra 2's too occasionally, those are the most resolving speakers I have right now.

But this thread has made me realize, perhaps that's why I kept experimenting with a second system. A Nad integrated with a few pairs of under $500 bookshelf speakers and IC cables I swap to experiment. I've had more fun with that system, tinkering and playing around. It's good enough to show differences in IC or speaker cables, and I can even play mp3 files without cringing. Well, some of them, not so much!
 
I don't think my previous system would be considered super hi-fi anyway, but I've sold it off and replaced it with older stuff. I realize that I may unknowingly be chasing down the sound of my grandmother's old Zenith console ;) :
What I had:
Carver C-1
Halfer DH120
Rotel RP-850 with a Grado Gold
Alison CD-7 speakers (I loved them!)
Denon DRM-44 cassette deck
Denon CD player (I forget which model, it probably said "resolution" or "stream" on the front).

What I've got now:
'68 Allied 399 receiver (it has the warmest gar-darnest sound ever)
Onkyo CP-1055 turntable with an AT 122LP
Home made speakers (little bookshelf jobs with a boomerang design)
Sony MXD-D3 Minidisc/CD play/rec
Pioneer PDR-509 CD recorder (It's a gem)
An Audio Control EQ (with a subsonic filter for when I'm recording LPs to either CD or MD)

I like my system now because it makes me happy to listen to it. I guess that's what matters the most.
Here's a shot or two of the homemade speakers. They were built in 1991 for use at a jukebox show we were going to (I used to work restoring jukeboxes and other coin amusement machines), but we wound up not using them after all, so I kept them. Sound pretty good, considering there's a giant boomerang hanging off the front.
DSCF0711.jpg DSCF0709.jpg
 
I am pretty sure that a lot of us in this community have multiple systems, maybe more than we should. Count me as one of them. My main system (mancave area), is where the largest and most modern equipment resides. Nothing I own would be considered todays Highest Fi. However, some of it is 80-90's hifi, so it sounds amazing to my ears. That would be large ADS restored speakers, a new Cambridge amp. DAC, and a custom built pc.
In the same room is a clean NAD 3150, ADS L620, ADS L400, Yamaha YP D71 tt, a Magnavox/ Philips cd player, this is the vinyl analogue system. They sound unique one from the other, but neither cause listener fatigue.

In the "ladies" den. It's the large Regza tv, a Denon ss receiver, some smaller JBL, ADS Speakers, and it sounds great for that room. I also snuck a t-amp with the 2 optimus pro 77's into that room for her pc audio, that little thing sounds pretty good as well.

The garage has an old Rotel 20_wpc receiver paired to some Infinity rsB speakers, and a vintage Sony ta-f55 integrated with matching tuner on the bench driving smaller Missions. I like to listen to all of these systems even though they have their pluses and minuses, and get mostly positive satisfaction from each of them.
But I still would like some Aerial acoustics 10t, and a set of conrad johnson premier 8a monoblocks.

Point is that I can go from one room to the other and get various degrees of fidelity without "feeling" the need to rid myself of anything. Or the need to get more, more, more. Most of the pieces acquired were quite affordable, and worth every penny.
 
Reposting to more directly answer the question. It seems to me some of the dragon chasing is done without knowing what the dragon looks like. Hence some of the dissatisfaction with some really nice hi-end gear. Being able to purchase something like a $1500 phono pre must be nice, but is it good because it raises your playback to another level or because "by golly, it's expensive so it must be good"? Or do those super duper SOTA speakers make the music you like sound great or is most of your music collection now gathering dust because your highly touted speakers make it unbearable to listen to? Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against expensive hi-end gear. However, price don't mean a thing, it's the sound's that's gotta have that zing :music:
IMO
 
So here is the question for this thread. Will poorly recorded music really sound worse on great equipment than mediocre equipment? (trying to steer clear of the mid fi term here) I'm just having a difficult time buying that a bad recording will sound better on lesser equipment. I have heard the remark how the musician trips over the guitar cord, but is that sort of thing really what defines what is generally considered a bad recording?

I do think that it can sound better due to lack of resolution with a lower end system.
As I mentioned before I listen to a decent amount of metal and some older punk music.
A lot of the studio stuff has way boosted bass and treble where on a resolving system it sounds both muddy and ear screeching. With a less resolving system (of the car or earbuds) the highs are rolled off and the bass is kinda flabby anyway so it sounds passable. You can turn it up and properly rock out.

For the stuff that sounds like it was recorded on a Fisher Price kids tape recorder (lots of early punk) there is no bass but mud and the highs consist of hiss. I don't need that emphasized and a less resolving system is good.
These are just a few examples that I've got experience with.
I can imagine if I got a 78rpm cart (and my table had that speed option) to run some old lacquer on my turntable then the crackly scratchy would be irritating while it's not so bad listening to those same records on my classroom portable player.
Just my .02 and again my system isn't high end really but it is plenty resolving.
 
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