S-100 Seeburg Jukebox PT replacement ?

Discussion in 'General Audio Discussion' started by Gary Mattis, Jul 4, 2018.

  1. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    TN.
    I'm working on a 1967 Seeburg S 100 jukebox with a SCC6 control center that is not working properly , unit scans twice when a selection is made and then it parks, the credit light is on. The Power Transformer smells like burnt toast but does have voltages still ? 28v,32v and 45v., I have another PT from a DCC4 that has 28v,41v,62v and 188 v. I have no way of knowing what the original voltages were on the (SCC6 ,-56 Code A) control center. This seems to be a one off model year with not very much information available. I tripped the mechanism manually in scan mode by the lever and it plays but it doesn't return record. I also replaced the mono amp with a TSA4 that I think was a SS 160 stereo amplifier. The credit unit looks good inside. On this model the add and subtract solinoids are not in the control center like usual but are in the Single Pricing Unit. SPU 4J-56,B7,29,1. Maybe someone here knows something about this model and can help me with the PT and Control center. These are pretty rare machines because only 400 were made. I looked for another SCC6 control center but could not find one. Thanks Gary !
     

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    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018

     

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  2. KentTeffeteller

    KentTeffeteller Gimpus Stereophilus!

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    Get the correct part, or have yours rewound by Heyboer. Don't risk the SCC6, a difficult to replace part.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
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  3. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    I found numbers under the rust on the PT, 317840-1 and 7736 736. Is there a way to get the specs or a replacement for it by those numbers ? Another thing was I found a shorted diode and replaced it with a 1 amp 4007 , the fuse is 3 amp and I was wondering if the diode is big enough ? I Cannot find the company for the transformer 317 EIA code ? Goes from 312 to 322 ?. Seems I remember having this problem once before with a 317 EIA code identification ? Somehow I found out who it was and I got an exact replacement OT for an old Manavox console. Been awhile since I did that and I don't remember who 317 is or was !
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
  4. KentTeffeteller

    KentTeffeteller Gimpus Stereophilus!

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    I'll see if I can find a 317 code for you.
     
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  5. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    S397 is stamped underneath the PT, maybe I could find a part number or spec by that number if I cannot find 317 EIA code.
     
  6. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

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    Does the service manual or schematic provide the voltages? usually when transformers die you get no output voltage or it gets so hot that it boils tar out if the fuse isn't properly sized.
     

     

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  7. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    D
    Not sure if the voltages are correct with it shorting out , it shorts out more and more the hotter it gets and it stinks, I tested it cold turning it on quick to get those voltages. I know the 28 volts is right. 150 to 180 is usually right also. I don't have a service manual for this yet.
     

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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  8. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

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    Does the transformer get hot if you disconnect all but the power input? If it does, its dying inside. If not you may have some fault outside the transformer that is making it get hot. Usually something is drawing too much current.
     
  9. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  10. DaveVoorhis

    DaveVoorhis Super Member

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    I see what appear to be original filter caps. Have you checked the ripple voltage?
     
  11. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    The thing that seems strange to me is that the voltage doubler circuit has only 32 volts feeding it ? I would expect it to be much more ! See pic.
     

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  12. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    Here's a picture of the whole power circuit.
     

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  13. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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  14. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    I cut the leads and removed the fuse and it took longer than before but it still got really hot without a load on it . I'm pretty sure it is bad. I tested the voltage unhooked and I got 81 volts instead of 45 on the two red leads, the regulator circuit there must retain 40 volts minimum, I think that I can use the other PT's 62 volt tap for this and that it will be enough. As long as it is over 40 I think that it will work . I could be wrong of course and it could divide it down to 31 volts and that could be why they used 80 volts. I really have nothing to lose by just trying it after I re cap it of course. The 41 volts on a 31v doubler circuit seems like more of an issue but even that seems like it would work. I am not going to try anything else until the caps are replaced. I do think that there is a short also besides the diode I replaced, I put the other PT in and the diode I replaced blew immediatly. I shut it off until I replace all of the e caps. I may have to add a 80 volt supply separately to make it work, the 62 volt tap read 31 volts but only one diode was working also ? May go up to 62 when the short is gone have to wait and see. Must have 40 volts minimum there. Can't find a replacement PT or a SCC6 Control center anywhere !
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2018
  15. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    No going to start by changing them all !, Waiting for the mail !
     
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  16. gadget73

    gadget73 junk junkie Subscriber

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    If it gets hot with no load its bad.

    Kinda need to know what voltages you need and go from there. If you have the service manual I'd look there to see what the factory says it should have.
     

     

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  17. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    Got the new caps in the mail today and recapped it and replaced the two diodes where one was blown, afterwards it blew the other side diode ? I put it in the same direction as the old one and it seems to be shorting out still, both diodes tested bad but not at the same time. Not sure if I understand what is going on with it. Maybe the IN4007's diodes are just too small ? Or not compatible ? But why did the first one I replaced not blow ? There are two 1.5 ohm resistors and two diodes, goes from chassis through the first resistor and diode to the first half of the power feed from transformer where it connects to the second diode and resistor that jumps to the fuse via orange wire. I unhooked the fuse and it blew the diode again. The original diodes we're SI 309 372. Are these some special kind of diodes ? . I think whatever is going on here is most likely what took out the original PT. Could the secondary tap be grounded or have polarity on it somehow causing this to happen ?. I seem to be better with tube equipment than I am with this solid state stuff , I know how a diode works but these type of rectifiers are not something I deal with a lot in tube amps. Also the fuse there was blown when I first started working on it. Any help is much appreciated ! Another thought I had was could I just use the extra 44 volt tap on the replacement PT instead of all of this crap ?
     

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    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  18. DaveVoorhis

    DaveVoorhis Super Member

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    An IN4007 is rated for up to 1 amp. You're clearly drawing more than that through it. That's probably due to a short downstream of the power supply, but I'd check that your new caps are correctly installed, too.

    Got a schematic you can post?
     
  19. Gary Mattis

    Gary Mattis Active Member

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    The caps should be right, or at least the same as they were before, I only cut one end at a time just to make sure. No SKU yet.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018
  20. DaveVoorhis

    DaveVoorhis Super Member

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    "The same as they were before" is not necessarily correct unless you know it was working correctly, for a long time, before.

    "SKU" usually means a Stock Keeping Unit -- a unique product ID for inventory purposes. Is that what you mean?

    It definitely changes AC to DC. Sounds like you're describing a centre-tapped transformer output ("two pt leads divide up to 80 make the 40 from AC") but your descriptions are not clear and don't inspire confidence in your electronics abilities. I can give you some guidance with a schematic but without it, and without a clear understanding of what you're doing, I'm disinclined to risk helping you make it worse. Sorry.

    Can you get a service manual for $20 here: https://www.jukeboxmanuals.com/seeburg.html ?

    Though $50 for a service manual is quite reasonable compared to the value of the jukebox.
     

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