Sansui 210 Output Transistor Replacement - Step by Step

Speaking of bias, I don't see anything in the service manual about setting the bias specifically. I have been adjusting two variable resistors making sure there is 21V across C817/818 and calling it good. Is there anything else you'd recommend?
I think that's the center voltage adjustment that ensures the load is shared evenly between the output transistors. If the power supply is measured at 42V, then 21V at the center is good. I don't see a bias adjustment, but plan to measure the voltage drop across the output resistors R837-840 and use Ohm's Law to calculate the idle current.
 
AK friends, today I put about four hours into the remaining fixes for the Sansui 210. Everything is working dynamite and so this post is to document the "cookbook" that I used to revitalize the Sansui 210. I want to especially thank @two.dogs @dlucy @kevzep @stereofun and everyone else who replied for their contributions to this final working receiver product.

In this project, the preamp, amp, and power supply sections were freshened up as follows:

Power Supply, replaced stock 1000uf cap with 1500uf cap. So far no negative affects from this. Just wanted to give the amp a little more reservoir to pull current from. The stock 1000uf cap just seemed a little under size to me.

Amp and preamp, recapped with mostly nichicon KL. I ran low on 100uf caps and used a new Sprague cap in a pinch. I did not have replacements on hand today for C004 and C807. Those are the only remaining stock electrolytic caps. I did also place a .1uf metalized polypropylene cap in parallel with the new 1000uf Nichicon KL coupling caps. I did not replace any ceramic caps. All diodes are original. One bad resistor was located and replaced with the same value.

Transistor replacements as follows:

2SC693 = KSC1845FTA
2SC1312 = KSC1845FTA
2SC1364 = KSC1815YTA
2SA678 = KSA1013
2SD315 = KSD1408Y (outputs)

Output Transistor replacement:

Outputs were replaced with KSD1408Y. This transistor is TO-220 and does not have a collector connection on the case of the transistor. Therefore all 3 wires for base/collector/emitter were soldered to the transistor. Shrink wrap was used to further insulate each output transistor connection as they do thread through the opening in the heat sink which can easily cause short if a contact gets bent or bumped. Diodes on the heat sink were simply moved and used stock clips to attach them next to the transistors.

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Here is the (mostly) recapped amp and preamp board:

20180324_152521.jpg

Some additional notes and lessons learned with this project:

1. The receiver (at least MINE) is susceptible to RF interference. Cell phones placed near the receiver can cause static sound from the speakers, especially if there is an active call on the phone or certain apps are running on the phone.

2. Check the solder joints at the edges of the amp board where it is soldered to chassis ground. Like another AK member I found one of these joints had cracked and was a loose connection.

3. The receiver sounds very nice once recapped and with the transistor replacements. I will get a lot of enjoyment out of it and to me was worth the time. It drives my Polk Monitor 5 Series 2 speakers well. I don't tend to listen to super loud music so this receiver may not be the best choice for some people who need more guts. But for me in my small office paired with these efficient speakers, it sounds very nice. Specifically, I want to call out that the midrange initially had a harshness to it and was a bit fatiguing. This did not go away until after the recap. Just replacing transistors did not solve this but the recap did.

4. Look closely here at the tracing near one of the 1000uf coupling caps. It has been scratched out by the factory. I wanted to document that here. I almost "repaired" this before realizing it would cause a catastrophic short of the coupling capacitor. You can see it here below the point to point wire:

20180324_123126.jpg

Again, thank you to everyone who helped contribute. Hopefully this thread will be of use to other Sansui 210 owners.
 
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AK friends, today I put about four hours into the remaining fixes for the Sansui 210. Everything is working dynamite and so this post is to document the "cookbook" that I used to revitalize the Sansui 210.

. . .

Again, thank you to everyone who helped contribute. Hopefully this thread will be of use to other Sansui 210 owners.

Awesome job! Someone just now on Facebook pasted about finding a 210 at Goodwill. Pointing them to here for help on their new project!
 
Not trying to be picky or telling you what to do, @americannigh , but I don't think you've shared a photo of the finished, in-action unit yet. Sure would be cool to see a photo... either here or edited into post #1. I'd like to know what this unit you've brought back to life looks like.... ;)
 
Wanted to share a small thing I learned this weekend in listening to my digital source through the receiver. There was a thread sometime back about tape mon vs. Aux in for this receiver. Here is a link to that thread:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/connecting-cd-player-to-sansui-210.561633/

To sum up what I'm reading in that thread and seeing in the schematic, the Tape Mon and AUX, while both functional, are different. The AUX has a 100K Ohm resistor in series with it and feeds through the first two stages of the preamp, TR601/602 and TR603/604. The tape Mon skips those gain sections and jumps straight to S2 which is the "Tape Mon" switch. Personally, I have found a noticeable difference in sound between the tape Mon and AUX. The manual lists the inputs as Tape Mon 180mV (30k Ohms), AUX 180mV (50k Ohms).

I am still trying out both to decide which I like better. Your mileage will certainly vary here and depend on your source and audio preferences. Both inputs function fine but they do sound different so I recommend trying them to see which you prefer.

Lastly, I will point out that when I use Tape Mon and the input selector switch is set to FM Tuner, there is a VERY slight bleed through of the radio signal into the audio path. It is so slight it requires literally putting your ear to the tweeter to perceive it. But it is there. My recommendation would be if you like the tape Mon input better, be sure to switch the input selector to AUX when using it. I have a feeling because of the way this circuit is set up, basically when you have the Tape Mon switch on, it shunts that signal straight to TR701/702 so that's the input that gets amplified. However if your input select is still on Tuner, that signal is still feeding into the preamp gain stages TR601/602 and TR603/604. I believe the wires for that gain stage are running close to or along side the wires for the switch S2 and thus inducing the signal from one pair of wires to the other. If I decide to open this receiver up again, I may look at how the wires are placed and experiment to see if this solves this problem. But again, it is such a slight bleed through, it would never be perceived unless your ear is literally against the speaker.
 
I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for improving the stock "heat sink" in this unit, which regrettably isn't much of a heat sink. I'm really enjoying this receiver sometimes for more than 12 hours per day as I work. Do they make something simple that can be clipped or fixed to the stock heat sink to add some fins/surface area? Curious what options are out there!
 
I was wondering if anyone has suggestions for improving the stock "heat sink" in this unit, which regrettably isn't much of a heat sink. I'm really enjoying this receiver sometimes for more than 12 hours per day as I work. Do they make something simple that can be clipped or fixed to the stock heat sink to add some fins/surface area? Curious what options are out there!

Searching at Mouser under thermal management -> heatsinks -> TO-220 I see lots of options like this for pretty cheap.
 
You got me thinking I could bolt two of these on using the extra mounting holes I have left over from the old TO-66 arrangement. Thanks man.
 
So...that intermittent scratchy sound in the right channel came back again after several weeks of almost daily listening. In a way I was kind of glad it came back because I never was satisfied that RF was the sole cause. The receiver is susceptible to RF which I've been able to replicate by placing my phone near it but...this never satisfied me that it was the whole issue with the static sound in the right channel only. This time was able to get the cover off to poke around with a chop stick and test out Doug's theory that it was a bad trace or solder joint somewhere. You were close, Doug. It was the variable resistor VR802 which seems to have a bad contact in it. Pushing with the chop stick on that component made the problem more pronounced. Sprayed it with contact cleaner and the problem went away. If it comes back though, I will be replacing both VR801 and VR802 with new 200K variable resistors. These parts are for the AC balance.
 
@kevzep I agree with that given my experience with this receiver. Live and learn. I'm getting the courage up to tackle my TR-707A which has been sitting on the shelf staring at me these past few months listening to the 210. Soon...
 
@kevzep I agree with that given my experience with this receiver. Live and learn. I'm getting the courage up to tackle my TR-707A which has been sitting on the shelf staring at me these past few months listening to the 210. Soon...
Nice work man, make sure you share the 707 experience with us!!
 
Pushing with the chop stick on that component made the problem more pronounced. Sprayed it with contact cleaner and the problem went away. If it comes back though, I will be replacing both VR801 and VR802 with new 200K variable resistors. These parts are for the AC balance.

Excellent detective work. Chopsticks and poking... I learn something new every day.
 
dlucy; Yeah, but you'll be hungry again in an Hour!

Very nice job Americannigh.

Larry
 
Hello.

I'm also trying to bring one of these sets back to life. Please forgive my lack of knowledge, but it looks like my transistors differ from available service manuals, and from this thread as well.

For example (references come from devices themselves, "CABC" on top, "/xxxx" just below)

TR601 and TR602: C871/91F
TR603, 604, 701 and 702: C871/64E
TR801 and 802: 694FC(?) (it looks like a little ball, no flat face as in typical transistors)
TR803 and 804: C634A/AJ60
TR805 and 806: C634A/AJ60

My board ID is F-1301-2, and I've found schematics only for F-1301-1 and F-1301-4. Most capacitors are similar but the transistors threw me off completely.

Any help on identifying possible replacements is very appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Joao
 
Hello, as I also currently have a Sansui 210 in my "lab", I would recommend the following:
Don't be fooled by the Sansui logo, this receiver is not really up to the brand standards, in my opinion. And after all, at a retail price of 62 £ in England in 1973, not only Sansui had to make a profit, but also the freight company, the dealer and the shop. Add to that the V.A.T. percentage, and then tell me what was left for sound quality. The main goal was to be competitive in a fierce market with Hitachi, Sony, Toshiba, Pioneer and many others.
Why I'm saying this is: look at the hair-thin secondary wires from the transformer and all the fuses Sansui put in to avoid strong currents. The idle current for the output stages is kept too low, causing lots of crossover distortion, even visible with a cheap scope. More idle current means more hum, asking for more feedback, which is kept very low here to avoid oscillation issues and fitting bigger, expensive capacitors, but low feedback adds other distortion. And the stereo decoder is quite basic.
Add to that the trick, as was popular in many BOTL amplifiers, to use the equalizer amp for all inputs, except for Tape monitor, to save on commutators. This means that S/N ratios over 65-70 dB are not possible, wasting the benefits of today's quiet digital sources.
This Sansui could do better, but only by replacing the power supply. Otherwise, you can improve it a bit, but only a little bit. Mainly by replacing the driver polarization resistors from 39 to 47 ohms, and with a 2200 uF main capacitor in place of the 1000 uF original. As it is, it's not even good for background music, with all that crossover distortion, and this could explain why my unit is still like new after 50 years: nobody wanted to listen to it !
In my experience, for 5 to 25 wpc, I prefer European receivers. They can be plasticky, not as nice - or even kitsch - but they were mostly designed for 4 ohm speakers, so they did handle current ...
 
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Well, let me also explain the issue of the strange scraping of the board, documented above by Americannigh: there are two version of the 210. It was originally designed with the Zobel network between the 2 output transistors, and the feedback point taken after the output capacitor, with a 5.6k resistor to the emitter of the usual error amplifier transistor.
In a later schematic - the HiFi Engine one - it is the opposite, and a 4.7 uF capacitor was added in series with the 5.6k, in order to block DC. This change was made without re-designing the layout, by cutting and piping (who could blame them for that price), and it was probably done to avoid oscillations.
 
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