Sansui amps with MC phono?

Discussion in 'Exclusively Sansui' started by Kim G, Nov 4, 2004.

  1. Kim G

    Kim G Super Member

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    1,193
    Here's a question for all you knowledgeable Sansui folks. Last spring I hooked into a nice Au 717 and Tu 717, they haved displaced my Pioneer SX 1250 to the basement system. I really like this combo, but I have upgraded my TT to a Thorens and it has a MC cartridge with an output of 1.5 mv. Not near enough gain for the Au 717. Beings that I enjoy the Sansui so much, I thought I would check into what Sansui offered in the way of moving coil phono sections in their amps. Can anyone ( BeatleFred) come up with any model numbers to look out for? Any to avoid? Or should I just go with an outboard step up MC preamp? I am in no hurry and my budget will be at least 300 and up, but not through the roof. ( I'm still reeling from the Thorens purchase ) I have a recently acquired Dual 1229 that I am very pleased with, but I am really itching to give the Thorens a turn. :yes: Any suggestions or help will be appreciated.

    Thanks............ Kim
     
  2. 1420-1503

    1420-1503 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
    Belgium
    What you could do actually is keeping your au-717 and add the Sansui Ca-F1 preamp to control it. It has MM/MC amps built in, and won't colour the sound of your au-717, and has the same quality of construction/look.
    It was made for the Ba-F power amp, which philosophy of construction is very close to the au-919.

    The au-919 is the TOTL product in this series of integrated, so this would be a logical upgrade to your au-717. Like the Ca-F1, this model's pre has MM/MC amps built in aswell.

    If you do get the Ca-F1 pre, you can still upgrade on your au-717 amplifier section if you can find the Ba-F power amp. It's a severly underrated amplifier that you might be able to find for (relatively) cheap.
    I paid €250 for mint Ca-F1 and Ba-F1 together. If you get these, I'm sure you'll be very very very satisfied with the sound. They sound natural, very very very detailed and open in a way that'll make most other amps sound 'nasal' by comparison. Although that is my experience.

    You could wander to other series of products, but I think the models I mentioned are the best for the money. Perhaps you could look at the AU-D11 as I think it has the MM/MC amps built in too but not sure. However do avoid the au-D9, which I have, as that won't sound better then your au-717.

    For more information on these products please check out the link below:

    http://www.classicsansui.net/Integrated Amplifiers.htm

    EDIT: BA-F1 it should be all the time; not BA-F. Some keys on my computer keyboard don't work like they used to.

    EDIT 2: I verified and the AU-D11 does indeed have MM phono inputs. So there you go. Check out the short list below of all the models I know that support MM phono.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2004
  3. 1420-1503

    1420-1503 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Short list for you

    Integrated
    AU-X1 (upscale series, but prone to oscillation problems)
    AU-919 (totl unit)
    AU-819
    AU-D9 (in my opinion not as good as the earlier au-717/au-919)
    AU-D11 (this is an impressive unit that I never heard, it has copper chassis)

    preamp
    CA-F1
     
  4. lorne

    lorne Sonic Lizard

    Not near enough gain for the Au 717.
    Hi Kim: I have an Alpha AU-707Extra which I understand to be the equivalent of the Au-717 of some flavor. Now, mine HAS an MC/MM selector on the front panel. And yours doesn't :scratch2: Anyway, here's my point. My little Au-307 has no MC selection either, but with a good twist on the gain knob I never seem to be down on volume during admittedly modest (read neighborly) listening. I am running an MC Denon 301-II. (I tried to find my output specs for you but failed.) I am wondering if your phono section is working at 100%?
     
  5. john_w

    john_w Miscreant

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    Using a MC phono in a MM input?? I don't know, but I suspect that there are other factors besides gain involved here, such as response curve and impedance match. Myself, I wouldn't attempt it. But then, I'm more on the extra cautious side with these things.

    I concur with 1420-1503.
     
  6. Rakz

    Rakz Active Member

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    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I'm certain that your au-707Extra isnt equivalent to the au-717. The au-alpha series (one of those you have, am I right?) came about 10 years later than the au-717.

    I like my au-919 very much, and as 43 minutes :naughty:, said it haves mc-phono. And the inputs are goldplated :). Too bad I havent fixed a TT yet.

    /Erik
     
  7. 1420-1503

    1420-1503 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    AU-717 doesn't have MC/MM selector, I know because I'm familiar with this unit.
     
  8. 1420-1503

    1420-1503 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    569
    Location:
    Belgium

    :no:

    Well maybe it's SIR CINQUECENTO for you NOW!!! :yes: :yes: :yes: :banana: :king:

    ps, how's your au-919 doing, still fine?
     
  9. Rakz

    Rakz Active Member

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    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Havent tried to fix channel drop out yet, however, I use it so much that it occurs not very often anymore. Thanks for that! A good cleaning wouldn't hurt though. Im still very happy with the clean sound from this magnificient unit.

    /Erik
     
  10. EchoWars

    EchoWars Hiding in Honduras

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    KimG...

    The 1.5mV is low for a MM, but high for a MC. Kinda in a bad spot for level matching.

    I've never done it, but the phono stage could be modified to provide more gain...
     
  11. Grumpy

    Grumpy Krusty old SOB! Yes, I own Audiokarma Staff Member Admin Sponsor Subscriber

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    One of my old carts was 2.2mv and even it was a pain. Too much gain in the MC stage and just barely enough when in MM. If you have an amp with lots of balls that can help make up for it. Otherwise it gets pricey buying a phono stage with adjustable gain.
     
  12. Kim G

    Kim G Super Member

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    1,193
    Thanks for all your responses. Maybe I should clarify, the cartridge I have is Joseph Grado Signature TLZ which technically is not a moving coil but a variation on the moving iron design which Grado dubbed the Fluxbridger. The technical info I have on the cartridge states:
    Output-1.5MV@3.54CMV ( 45 degrees )
    Input load - 47000HZ
    Resistance - 70 OHMS
    NON SENSITIVE TO CAPACITIVE LOAD

    Maybe I'll try hooking it up to the Pioneer SX 1250 and see if it has enough grunt to make it sing.

    Thanks, and keep the responses and recommendations coming.

    Kim
     
  13. lorne

    lorne Sonic Lizard

    Point taken

    You have a point john_w! It might be another thread, but a basic primer on how phono sections are commonly blocked out (as in a block diagram) with some commentary would really be a good thing for us platter spinners using older gear. Impedance matches complicate things even more. This raises some interesting questions about my ancient AR integrated which has a gain adjustment on the backside. If anyone has any suggestions as to how that was accomplished as a circuit, perhaps it might give Kim some ideas. (I have a schematic for the thing, so perhaps I should take a look — but sorda kinda schematic stupid.)
     
  14. Kim G

    Kim G Super Member

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    1,193
    Boy Do I Feel Stupid

    Well, after letting this table sit for over a month because I couldn't get ANY sound out of it besides a nasty hum, I decided to check things out . I hooked it up to my Pioneer SX 1250 and cranked the volume, still nothing. Something seriously wrong here. I take my multimeter out and start checking for continuity from the cartridge leads to the rca jacks and I get nothing checking 3 of the leads. I'm thinking that something got terribly screwed up during shipping and I had better pull the bottom cover and see if there was any damage to the cable. I opened it up and there it was, the cable plug was not plugged into the tone arm. I plugged it in and buttoned up the bottom and reconnected it to the Pioneer. Turned it on, dropped the needle, and Pink Floyd never sounded this good. I had to put the volume to about 10 o'clock to get decent volume (normally very loud on the 1250) and it sounds great. Now I guess I will have to try the Sansui again to see if it can handle it as well as the Pioneer. I will continue to look for a Sansui with a MC hook up, but I'm not as desperate as I was. I am leaning towards an AU 919, but I'm keeping all options open.
    Update- the Sansui can handle it just fine, just have to boost the volume a little more. Yep- you could say I'm a happy camper now.
    Thanks to all who responded

    Kim
     
  15. Tdogzthmn

    Tdogzthmn Active Member

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    Might be an old thread but I just recently started looking into this myself. It would be great to find an AU 819 or 919 but they seem to be scarce and expensive compared to the 517/717.
     
  16. Hyperion

    Hyperion Roobarb & Custard Subscriber

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    13 years, for resurrection of a 'zombie thread' that must be a record! :)
     
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  17. Tdogzthmn

    Tdogzthmn Active Member

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    Although not too surprising since we are talking about gear that's 40+ years old!
     

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