Sansui SP-5000 /Pioneer Spec 4 performance report

Rick

New Member
Hi everybody,

I posted this on our 70sAudioMindSet group in late November. I thought you Sansui guys might enjoy it.
*************************************************************

I was going to wait awhile till I had more time to write this and upload some pictures. But because of the other theads about speakers, power levels, etc., I decided to go ahead now and will upload pictures later.

Two days ago I hooked up a set of Sansui SP-5000 speakers that I have owned for 2 1/2 years but had never really checked out. When I first received them, I pulled them out of a massive set of boxes to visually check them and then slid them back in the boxes. They have been stored in the corner of my entrance hall ever since with stacks and stacks of other equipment... all not hooked up or useable.

I had to get a particular piece of gear out of that mess to check out for sale, so I decided to rearrange and move everything. Now I have a space there to mess with the stuff. These Sansui SP-5000's are the speakers of choice for that location. They are spaced with only about 3-4 ft of space between them with shelving across the tops to form a "workbench" for stacking up some working gear.

I can't really express how impressed I am with these 5000's. They are a large, heavy, efficient, 7 speaker, 4-way system. To me, they sound beautiful with a very smooth and effortless sound whether played at very low background level or thunderous wall-shaking volume. Here are the specs from the User Manual.

(1) 15" woofer
(2) 6.5" low midranges
(2) 4" high midranges
(2) 2.5" horn-type tweeters
Sensitivity = 102db/watt
8 ohm system (6 to 15 range with no loss of efficiency)
Frequency range = 30 - 20,000 (at Anechoic Chamber)
25 - 20,000 (at Normal Listening room)
Dimensions = 19.25" Wide x 32.6" High x 16.6" Deep
Weight = 90.3 pounds
Finish = Oiled walnut (also with the wood fretwork grilles)

Like most if not all the Sansui speakers of the era, they have cloth surrounds instead of foam so rot is not an issue.

The crossover network is not described. They do have the typical Sansui Clear, Natural and Soft control on the back to help with matching to room acoustics. But these have TWO of them on each speaker. One is labeled Mid-range, the other is labeled High-Range. So this gives what... 9 different crossover settings.

They are now hooked up to a classic silver-face Pioneer system consisting of SPEC 1 Preamp, SPEC 4 (150wpc) power amp, TX-9800 tuner, SG-9800 equalizer, RT-909 & RT-707 reel to reel decks, RG-2 reverb, SR-303 dynamic range processor and other misc units. This is all in a 9 ft wide entrance hall that is widely open (6 ft opening) on one end to a relatively spacious living room, a kitchen at the other end of the hall with a standard size door opening and a large open stairwell to upstairs.

The SPEC 4 amp is a clean, powerful amp and has large analog power output meters on the front panel that I assume are of high quality. The meter scale range is 0.01 to 300 watts output power. Note: 0.01 = 1/100 of 1 watt.

As a point of reference, the meter also has a db scale.

0.01 watts = -45 db approximately
0.1 watts = -31 db approximately
1 watts = -22 db approximately
10 watts = -12 db approximately
50 watts = -4.5 db approximately
75 watts = -3 db exactly
100 watts = -1.5db approximately
150 watts = 0 db exactly (0db corresponds to rated output)
300 watts = +3 db exactly

Or precisely (watts rounded to two decimal places)
0.01 watts = -42 db
0.02 watts = -39 db
0.04 watts = -36 db
0.07 watts = -33 db
0.15 watts = -30 db
0.29 watts = -27 db
0.59 watts = -24 db
1.17 watts = -21 db
2.34 watts = -18 db
4.69 watts = -15 db
9.38 watts = -12 db
18.75 watts = -9 db
37.5 watts = -6 db
75 watts = -3 db
150 watts = 0 db
300 watts = +3 db

It takes 2X power to make a 3db change which is the amount required for most folks to notice a change in volume. It requires 10X power to make perceived volume to be twice as high.

I do not own a SPL meter but here is my subjective report of these speakers with the above equipment. Playing a rock FM station with music containing normal levels of bass information...

With zero perceptible meter movement (less than 1/100th of 1 watt), the music is a very perceptible background level, it is quite easy to have a conversation with no special effort. The music does not sound thin or weak. It has good bass quality that is in balance with the volume level.

At average meter readings of....

0.01 (1/100th of 1) watts output = it is still easy to carry on a conversation but music is much more noticeable

0.1 (1/10th of 1) watts output = the music is very present, but conversation is not a real problem.

1 watts output = the music is loud, conversation requires more force and more focused toward the listener.

10 watts output = is very loud, conversation is much more difficult and requires real effort to be heard.

50 to 100 watts = the music is VERY loud, our old style windows rattle considerably, conversation is very difficult and requires semi-shouting.

100 to 150 watts = THUNDEROUS volume, powerful bass notes vibrate the pants on my legs, it is impossible to have a conversation without face to face shouting. I can feel the house shaking and can only imagine how loud it is in the neighborhood. Sometime when enough neighbors are gone, I will try this long enough to to go out and walk around the neighorhood just for shits and grins... :)

150 to 300 watts = Noticeably higher volume than THUNDEROUS, but I can't hold this at an average level because the SPEC 4's protection circuits kick in. The speakers seem to handle it just fine before amp cuts out. At that sound level, it is difficult to judge quality, distortion, etc, but I did not notice any extreme harshness or speaker breakup, etc.

Hope you enjoy the info

Best regards,
Rick
www.stereomanuals.com
You are invited to visit:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/70sAudioMindset


rl]
 
Hiya, Rick, welcome to AK!

Great review, Rick!
From your comments, I'd say that the SP-5000's escape the 'kabuki' label despite its plethora of drivers.

May we expect more such reviews in the future?
 
Thanks Greg.

Pete: I dunno.... I might although probably no right along the lines of this one. I do have a bunch of things up my sleeve (well, actually rattling around the between my ears) that I would like to write about audio wise. Not likely anything that hasn't been said a zillion times before, but perhaps in a different way that might appeal to some folks.

I've been gathering a ton of stuff for quite awhile to build a reference section on my site. I'm just trying to find time to put it all together. I think if /when it gets done, it will be a real nice place for newbies and casual audio fans while at the same time being a good quick review place for more serious folks.

For now it seems that all available time goes toward trying to get 50,000 odd things cataloged (described, rated, etc.) *the way I want it*. For the past couple years my whole social life has been race out to the post office most days getting there 'just' before closing. Then I yuck it up with the postal clerks and come home.

With this boring existence, I figured I should get out more. Hence coming over here and posting the SP-5000 message. So, hi everybody, this sure is fun, lets get together and do it again....

Well, I'm joking.... mostly! The real reason was that they really did just blow me away. I have a bunch of other sets of Sansui speakers here. They all (except one set) are very pleasing to use in their proper settings.

Rick
www.stereomanuals.com
 
I found some time to search the site. I discovered the origin of the kabuki references. While I certainly understand everybody having their own preferences, I hardly see how anybody could not like the sound of these 5000's.

They would not fit my definition of junk crap gussied up to appeal to some ignorant dolt.

I noticed grumpy (I think) chiming in with various comments about early Sansui speakers sounding good. I have to agree. I have several sets and love them all. Not a junk set among them ('cept one early 80's Z something model).

Rick
www.stereomanuals.com
 
A good 'kabuki' test is the weight of the object. At 90 lbs., your Sansui's don't meet the test.
I also like the 'knuckle rap' test-- kinda like choosing melons, the knuckle rap should provide a dead thump.
The 80s are the worst, well, mebbe the 90s even now, but 'white van' has taken over.
The 60s and early 70s produced some fine wood cabinetry, filled with fine drivers, from Pioneer, Sansui & Kenwood. Somewhere along the way, like those dastardly 80s, that LOOK was copied without the real guts and glory.
I even bought a pair! Three-ways, but a hollow ringing with the knuckle rap, and light weight. Bummer. Glad to sell them. They used trim rims to fake like real cast frames, etc.
 
I know exactly what you mean. That one set of Sansui's are exactly like that. Rated at a jillion watts power handling, huge woofer, drivers trimmed to look like space-age materials.

BUT you can lift one with one hand and if you don't grasp it to hard, the cabinet walls won't collapse. Another BUT..... they are damm loud!!!!

Third BUT..... they sound like crap.... harsh and tiresome. I had them in the garage hooked up to an old, small power Scott receiver for a year or so playing FM.

When I took a Spec rack system out there I had to change speakers. I hooked up a set of SP-3000's and it was like night and day. Literally no comparison in sound quality.

Rick
www.stereomanuals.com
 
Rick,Are the Sp5000's capable of handling 300 watts? The plate on the crossover says 90 watts maximum.

I don't understand the purpose of your question. Sansui says 90 watts max, then I would assume 300 watts is out of the realm of reality.
 
I don't understand the purpose of your question. Sansui says 90 watts max, then I would assume 300 watts is out of the realm of reality.

In the post you recently wrote, on December 31 2003, you talked about how loud they were with average meter readings of 300W on your Pioneer. This implies that they can take more than 90W

I should mention that member 4-2-7 also talked about grossly exceeding the rated power of the SP-5000, with the only result being incredible volume levels.

I think that the Sansui SP speakers were overbuilt from a power handling perspective, which is quite different from many other speakers of that era.
 
In the post you recently wrote, on December 31 2003, you talked about how loud they were with average meter readings of 300W on your Pioneer. This implies that they can take -SNIP-

Ok, I laughed for real at that one.
 
In the post you recently wrote, on December 31 2003, you talked about how loud they were with average meter readings of 300W on your Pioneer. This implies that they can take more than 90W

I should mention that member 4-2-7 also talked about grossly exceeding the rated power of the SP-5000, with the only result being incredible volume levels.

I think that the Sansui SP speakers were overbuilt from a power handling perspective, which is quite different from many other speakers of that era.


Perhaps you misunderstood the remarks I had made about 150 - 300 watts. Did you notice I also said the amp cut out? That level was only for 2 - 5 seconds. I would guess that real average output of 150 - 300 watts to the speakers would blow them out. The remarks about 100 - 150 watts could also be "fine tuned" to understand that most of the average output at 100 watts is barely above the rated 90 watts max. And the meter is intermittently hitting highs up toward 150.

So yes I believe the max rating of 90 watts is a conservative figure, but 150 - 300 is nonsense.
 
Perhaps you misunderstood the remarks I had made about 150 - 300 watts. Did you notice I also said the amp cut out? That level was only for 2 - 5 seconds. I would guess that real average output of 150 - 300 watts to the speakers would blow them out. The remarks about 100 - 150 watts could also be "fine tuned" to understand that most of the average output at 100 watts is barely above the rated 90 watts max. And the meter is intermittently hitting highs up toward 150.

So yes I believe the max rating of 90 watts is a conservative figure, but 150 - 300 is nonsense.

That makes sense. To be fair, there was no mention of how long it took for the amp to cut out - I wasn't there so I was imagining a minute or more until the heat sinks got hot, I'm not sure if the SPEC 4 has a thermal cutout, or how it works. I would never endorse exceeding the ratings of equipment, I just found your review of the SP-5000 strikingly similar to that of another member - enough that it makes it sound like more than an opinion to hear basically the same info from two sources.

On a slightly different topic - I recently purchased a manual from you, for my Advent video projector and would like to thank you for the great service.
 
See this is why i love my pair of SP-5000's...and find it so very difficult to let them go...they are 'beasts' when it comes to playing music, undistorted, loudly! Did I say loud?!? Oh and the construction of them...solid!!!
 
So yes I believe the max rating of 90 watts is a conservative figure, but 150 - 300 is nonsense.
Yes the rating on the speaker is 90 watts.....but

I'm sorry I respectfully disagree with the statement above. My pair with nothing done to them since new would handle 180 watts of mac tubes. While they would start to distort sound around 170 watts I could turn my system up all the way. I used mine for a long time in this setup and I would play it loud all the time for an entire song, not just one quick burst of power.

This setup was a McIntosh C100 preamp with two MC275 Mk VI bridged @ 180WPC. While these new MC275s still have the 75 watt label they constantly putout 90 WPC. On top of that I have my turntable cartridges staged hot adding gain prior to the stage with head amps. This make my turntables overall a louder source than say a normal line level source like a CDP.

My preamp has a 124 step volume control -80 to +15db and this setup is the only one I have been able to push the preamp all the way up and leave it.
 
Last edited:
That makes sense. To be fair, there was no mention of how long it took for the amp to cut out -
I can't believe his amp was cutting out, (Shutting Down?) How can a 90 watt 102db speaker spit out the speck amp, maybe the design or the power supply is weak and can't keep the transformers juiced.

I just found your review of the SP-5000 strikingly similar to that of another member - enough that it makes it sound like more than an opinion to hear basically the same info from two sources.
My opinion differs in I know these speakers handle a lot more power than they rated them. They also sound better with lots of good clean power and totally change the character of the speakers. I never really liked mine much with 80-125 watt Sansui gear. When I got the mac amps it was a game changer.
 
It rook a lot of years to change my mind from the age old echo chamber of "the most efficient speakers are only 2 or 3 ways"
But are they they most true or best sounding?
How can people call a 7 way kabuki speaker inefficient if it reproduces a very flat frequency response at say 97 to 101 db 1 watt driven like these models often do (depending on model)?

I don't think 'efficiency' is the issue here - this is where the older Sansui's excel! Some are super-efficient.

To me it comes down to the integration of so many drivers and the accuracy/coherence of the sound.
 
I don't think 'efficiency' is the issue here - this is where the older Sansui's excel! Some are super-efficient.

To me it comes down to the integration of so many drivers and the accuracy/coherence of the sound.
Come around and have a listen Pete to my SP-5000's...I'm sure you'll change your opinion! :)
 
Come around and have a listen Pete to my SP-5000's...I'm sure you'll change your opinion! :)

We've got a pair of the big beasts in the Sydney Sansui Museum - I haven't heard them for quite a while! They are currently in use as stands for some lovely Paradigm and Electrovoice speakers.

I probably do owe them the justice of another listen some day in future. :)
 
Now wait a minute, you're using a pair of SP-5000's as speaker stands? That's a rather unfititng demotion for them. Even if they are doing an admirable job of supporting some EV's.

That would be like driving a Jaguar XJ12 to run pizza deliveries. Sure, it might work, but it's not being used to its highest and best purpose.
 
Now wait a minute, you're using a pair of SP-5000's as speaker stands? That's a rather unfititng demotion for them. Even if they are doing an admirable job of supporting some EV's.

That would be like driving a Jaguar XJ12 to run pizza deliveries. Sure, it might work, but it's not being used to its highest and best purpose.
Well said Sansuiman! And it's only a Jaguar XJ12 if it's been re-capped too! :)
 
Back
Top Bottom