SANYO N55 Super D NR

[SaSi]

Some while ago I got hold of a Sanyo N55 Noise reduction unit. I'm not sure how I got to have it and it was resting in storage until recently when I stumbled across it looking for something different.

I tried to locate information about it and the only relevant hit I had was on this page:http://audiotools.com/noise.html
It states:

Sanyo had an interesting variant on the theme available in the N55 and Super D units, they sported both a Dolby B codec AND a compander giving you a unit compatible with most of the recordings out there while also giving you some of the dynamic expansion that you got from a DBX system

So I gather it's a Dolby B codec and a compander in one.

I know the real way of getting an idea of what it does and how it performs is to try it out. But I was wondering if anyone is using one of these or has experience with it.

 

[tubeboob]

I'm curious to know how good it is.

I have three Sanyo "Plus Series" components, and they are all superb performers (C55, P55 and T55).

Looking forward to your opinion . . .

Cheers

 

[SaSi]

OK, I found the time to plug in the unit and try it out. I used a CD player and the CD "Jacques Loussier Playes Bach" - a CD I often use for reference.

Used a Technics RS-AZ6 deck that I had available on the bench as a deck and several different cassettes ranging from TDK SA-X and Maxell XL-IIS to Agfa Ferro Plus. Each tape was tried after calibrating the deck to it (with the built in auto calibration process).

As I could not find any kind of information or user's manual, I decided to improvise.

Firstly, it's a compressor/expander kind of noise reduction system. It doesn't include any kind of dolby encoder or decoder.

With all the tapes I tried it, I had to raise the recording level all the way up and tune the rec-level on the encoder accordingly. After some experimentation with this and the calibration trimmers found on the front panel I think I achieved what could be it's normal operating conditions.

My first impression is that I'm impressed. The compression is quite substantial. -30dB on the source CD is amplified up to -4~-5dB on the deck and -10dB on the source reaches -3~-2dB on the deck. I didn't allow recording to exceed 0dB on the deck to avoid saturation.

Noise (tape hiss) appears to be eliminated in the levels I've experienced with dbxII. In any case it far exceeds what Dolby C can achieve.

I normally can discern some hiss on a TDK SA during quiet passages when using headphones. I could clearly hear the hiss with DNR switched off (although it was not annoying) but could simply not hear any kind of hiss with DNR engaged.

My second test was made using a Type I tape, and a very old Agfa Super Ferro no less. I've long decided that these tapes are no good any longer because of the extremely audible hiss and oxide dropout. Recording on it without any NR was as I recalled it. Nice and juicy in the loud parts and intolerable in the quite passages. Engaging DNR was a big surprise. Tape hiss was totally gone. And not only that, I could not (easily) decide which was the CD and which was the tape output. Now I don't have golden ears but hearing is good enough to know I much prefer the extended frequency response and lower noise of a good type II tape.

Comparing with dbxII I found more similarities than differences. (playing back a dbxII encoded cassette with the N55 showed it's not dbxII). I could not hear any breathing in the recording.

Comparing with Dolby C, it sounds much more effective and less intrusive in the lower frequencies.

Next test I want to run is on a two head, much lesser deck with limited frequency response to see how it performs as well as try to record some classical chamber music in much lower levels than 0dB and listen to the playback to see how it sounds, specifically if recording at lower levels (that allow for a wider frequency response) will also benefit from lower distortion without the added noise.

And that's it for an initial report. Bottom line, I'm glad I have this and will keep on playing with it.

 

[steerpike2]

I had one of these in 1982. I bought it new, but after a few weeks of use I returned it & swapped it for a cassette deck that had built in dbx.
The Super-D is a two-banded compander, using the same principle as dbx, which is why it is level sensitive, and dbx (single band) is not. Once you have set the record levels on the cassette deck using the Super-D's calibration tone, you must never change those levels. Recording level adjustment is done on the Super-D box only.

The Super-D S/N ratio is - like dbx - around 90dB. But what I didn't like is that you can hear it working with certain types of music. Classical guitar material was the worst, I found. It isn't as intrusive as dbx in that way, but I swapped it because it is incompatible with every other noise reduction system: at least at the time, a handful of manufacturers were using dbx. No-one but Sanyo (Fisher) used Super-D.

The cassette deck I got was a Teac V95-RX, which has a poor quality mechanism, and never worked well. So 'd probably be happier if I had the Super-D now, and not the Teac.

The Super-D came with a demonstration cassette and spoken instructions for use. The music on it was a synth-pop version of John Williams music for Star Wars, and a voice over with a very 'American' accent, who kept referring to "Sun-yo".

 

[SaSi]

Nice background info. Interesting point about the spoken instructions. So I won't bother looking for a manual anymore.

It's interesting that playback of SuperD encoded material without the decoder sounds much more audible than dbx encoded material. The highs are much more pronounced but overall the balance is adequate. Something like Dolby encoded cassette played back without dolby. What you get isn't correct but could compensate on a cheap playback system.

One additional important point I have is that bass notes (and I mean the lower notes on a Jazz Bass Chello) sound magnificent with their entire dynamic range without overloading the cassette. I guess these are the benefits of using a compander (dbxII does the same).

 

[steerpike2]

Sasi, I know you too are a Revox fan: I would so much like to get hold of one of the very few B710 cassette decks that were made with Telefunken's Hi-Com noise reduction, to see what that sounds like.

 

[analoghifi]

Hey Sasi I used to own one of those Super D's and it was marketed at one point as Sanyo's solution to Dolby B and C. You nailed it, its very similar to DBX, but infact the Super D sounded better from the lowest to the highest capable frequencies. It seemed to me like a tweaked version of DBXII. Super D is also forgiving on slower tape speeds too. Great unit! I saw you wrote you kept it at 0db to avoid saturation, but infact, if you have it peaking at +3, +5 at most, it sounds flawless! The little Saturation added packs alot of punch in low ends yet maintaining the standard high frequencies consistency.
I own a studio and I loved using them, its definitely a keeper. i eventually upgraded to Toshiba's ADRES NR unit. I find Toshiba's ADRES system to be the most flawless NR system for Tape! However, although I replaced my Super D unit with an ADRES unit, this doesnt mean the Super D lacked from the ADRES substantially, just by a small tiny margin! A guy like me who loves heavy basslines, echo chambered guitar riffs and percussion lines that hit your chest hard, that you have to manually breath. The Adres is the answer! Super D comes Second place IMO, with a slightly faster attack and release time in its NR processing! This isnt a big deal with the majority of music out there!
Sanyo Super D is one of the best out there, hold onto it man! They were amazing for recording basslines and percussion as well! ADRES simply improved on that a little thats all.

 

[SaSi]

Sasi, I know you too are a Revox fan: I would so much like to get hold of one of the very few B710 cassette decks that were made with Telefunken's Hi-Com noise reduction, to see what that sounds like.

I didn't know they made any such versions. I have a pair of Nakamichi HiCom units and I've used them with a B77 LS version. 1 7/8 recordings at -10dB sound decent.

 

[SaSi]

Hey Sasi I used to own one of those Super D's and it was marketed at one point as Sanyo's solution to Dolby B and C. You nailed it, its very similar to DBX, but infact the Super D sounded better from the lowest to the highest capable frequencies. It seemed to me like a tweaked version of DBXII. Super D is also forgiving on slower tape speeds too. Great unit! I saw you wrote you kept it at 0db to avoid saturation, but infact, if you have it peaking at +3, +5 at most, it sounds flawless! The little Saturation added packs alot of punch in low ends yet maintaining the standard high frequencies consistency.
I own a studio and I loved using them, its definitely a keeper. i eventually upgraded to Toshiba's ADRES NR unit. I find Toshiba's ADRES system to be the most flawless NR system for Tape! However, although I replaced my Super D unit with an ADRES unit, this doesnt mean the Super D lacked from the ADRES substantially, just by a small tiny margin! A guy like me who loves heavy basslines, echo chambered guitar riffs and percussion lines that hit your chest hard, that you have to manually breath. The Adres is the answer! Super D comes Second place IMO, with a slightly faster attack and release time in its NR processing! This isnt a big deal with the majority of music out there!
Sanyo Super D is one of the best out there, hold onto it man! They were amazing for recording basslines and percussion as well! ADRES simply improved on that a little thats all.

I tried the unit with different decks I have, mostly Technics, like M85, Elcaset 7500, 673, M63 and using different cassettes - mainly low end LH from BASF, TDK and Memorex. On the Elcaset I used Technics and Sony type I - all I have.

I also tried in parallel a Technics dbx unt (RP-9024) and a dbxII unit I got recently.

I think that the Sanyo puts the dbx processors to shame.

 

[tubeboob]

Would this Sanyo piece make a diff on pre-recorded tapes??

I'm curious, would this Sanyo piece make a difference on pre-recorded tapes?

If so, I want one!!!

Cheers

 

[SaSi]

No, it's an encoder/decoder. You encode while recording and decode during playback.

What you are looking for would be a single ended "denoiser".

 

[SaSi]

Just wanted to add that the encoded tapes sound much better if played un-decoded compared to dbxII encoded tapes. With dbxII, the bass is just missing and the sound is thin and metallic - if undecoded. With this NR, sound is just compressed. It sounds much like many modern CDs that are mastered that way.

 

[analoghifi]

I tried the unit with different decks I have, mostly Technics, like M85, Elcaset 7500, 673, M63 and using different cassettes - mainly low end LH from BASF, TDK and Memorex. On the Elcaset I used Technics and Sony type I - all I have.

I also tried in parallel a Technics dbx unt (RP-9024) and a dbxII unit I got recently.

I think that the Sanyo puts the dbx processors to shame.

Whoa, you used the Super D on an Elcaset, Im curious to know how that sounds! Elcaset units were quite decent sounding on their own! Transport was well designed too. Technics had some decent DBX decks too, I remembered this Audiophile shop owner telling me how he hated the fact DBX were on Technics and not Nakamichi. LOL! They predicted that Technics decks had an inconsistent transport system which would defeat the purpose of DBX on their decks. I know a few guys still using their Technics DBX decks and still works like a charm!
The Super D must have sounded better then the DBX by far, and to use it on that very same Technics Deck must have made durastic improvements.

If you can ever get a hold of a Toshiba Deck branded as AUREX (their high end) Grab one, I'm sure you would enjoy how well it performs. Ive had 100's of decks in the past and I gotta say, I kept a few of them one was my Toshiba Deck. I had recently Sold my Nakamichi CR-7a deck yet I kept my BX-300 as it was more built for heavy usage then the CR-7a.

I guess the most debatable topic is what many people think sounds the best in the Tape format. When I was in high school, i hated using Noise Reduction. But during that time like every other teenager, no knew how to use it properly. [You were considered a geek or nerd then, i guess that wasnt kool LOL] My walkman had dolby B and C too, but of course not knowing how to use it correctly then i thought it was cutting away from the high frequencies as well as the hissing noise floor. But if only the majority of people knew how to use NR systems correctly, tapes probably would have earned more respect. Nowadays I personally think Tapes sound at its best with some kind of GOOD Noise Reduction to it!

 

[TBL_HK]

I just came into possession of this NR now. But how do we set it up?

Terence

 

[mgosdin]

I had one of these new in 1980, sold it in 2003 and regretted it. So, I bought one off of eBay last year. I haven't found a copy of the user manual, but HiFiEngine has a copy of the service manual which includes setup and calibration instructions to get it working with a tape deck. The service manual can be download from there once you've registered, which is free, if you aren't already.

It's a joy to use and does a spectacular job making quiet recordings.

Mark Gosdin

 

[lissenup]

I use one in my all Sanyo Plus system. It has to be calibrated to your deck properly and once it is, even a lesser deck sounds decent. I use it with my two P55's in strapped mode, C55, T55, D64, Q50, and E55.

 

[ASRHTB]

Hello SaSi,
I was looking for super d noise reduction in my digitizing old reel progress, which may not have any reduction encode in the tapes. Do you recommend it? Is there any software that contains super D noise reduction?

 

[ASRHTB]

Hello SaSi,
I was looking for super d noise reduction in my digitizing old reel progress, which may not have any reduction encode in the tapes. Do you recommend it? Is there any software that contains super D noise reduction?

SUPER D Working Mechanism

• ASRHTB
• Mar 18, 2022

SUPER D Working Mechanism

Hello, is this working mechanism showing, not encoded super D tapes will not work with super D?

 

[vwestlife]

Super D is an encode/decode system. It compresses the dynamic range when recording and then expands it during playback. It is not designed to play tapes that weren't recorded with the matching encoding process. The result would likely have a pronounced gating effect where the quiet parts of the audio drop out completely.

 

[ASRHTB]

Super D is an encode/decode system. It compresses the dynamic range when recording and then expands it during playback. It is not designed to play tapes that weren't recorded with the matching encoding process. The result would likely have a pronounced gating effect where the quiet parts of the audio drop out completely.

Hmm thanks, I expected that coming.. What do you suggest for noise reduction, I am looking for best solution.