Sasaki: Good News
- Thread starter MikE
- Start date
sasaki kojiro
Active Member
I'll post a few impressions soon. For now I'll just say that they run really hot--as hot as my monobloc EL 34s (x4).
Here's a pic in the mean time. Note how the internal structure is all crooked, bending one way and another.
Here's a pic in the mean time. Note how the internal structure is all crooked, bending one way and another.
MikE
Color Me Gone
Well, they along with 8 other pairs, survived the flight from Europe. Of the 18 tubes there was only one casualty. So inspite of appearences my tubes were associated with trauma, perhaps violent shaking or vibration, inroute stateside. At this point the only opinion that carries much weight is the USPS claims office in St. Louis.
MikE
sasaki kojiro
Active Member
35 hours
Still early, but enough to gauge the true nature of a tube. These tubes have the smooth characteristic sound of 45 globes. What they add is more. More power, microdynamics, lushness, and detail. These tubes in my system are lush. Voice is portrayed in a much more palpable manner than with my other 45s. Acoustic instruments are much the same. I'm hoping that they open up a bit (especially on top) in the next 60 hours or so.
My pair are slightly microphonic.
That said, I've recently found a few disparaging posts elsewhere concerning EML build quality in general, and the're life expectancy in particular. FWIW, EML has very specific criteria for packaging, and they state that the internals are heavier that normal. The tubes are 6.5" tall.
The test certificate that came with these globes proclaim a 12 mo. guarantee.
Still early, but enough to gauge the true nature of a tube. These tubes have the smooth characteristic sound of 45 globes. What they add is more. More power, microdynamics, lushness, and detail. These tubes in my system are lush. Voice is portrayed in a much more palpable manner than with my other 45s. Acoustic instruments are much the same. I'm hoping that they open up a bit (especially on top) in the next 60 hours or so.
My pair are slightly microphonic.
That said, I've recently found a few disparaging posts elsewhere concerning EML build quality in general, and the're life expectancy in particular. FWIW, EML has very specific criteria for packaging, and they state that the internals are heavier that normal. The tubes are 6.5" tall.
The test certificate that came with these globes proclaim a 12 mo. guarantee.
MikE
Color Me Gone
Cool
New OPTs usually take 100 hours or so to stabilize. Have you had any problems with them holding bias? You hinted as much but the one aspect I enjoy with my EML's is the almost "bigger than life sound". Other tubes, regardless their charms, just sound "wimpy" next to them. Yet, as you mention they are smooth, "lush" and the detail! What of their perspective? Near-field, recessed? Sure wish I had a pair :cry:
MikE
The MORE part pretty much sums up my thoughts on the EML solid plate 45. I've not heard their mesh-plate or the Globe. I would think our tubes are quite similiar. I've not heard much from the other fellas but looking forward to their reports.
New OPTs usually take 100 hours or so to stabilize. Have you had any problems with them holding bias? You hinted as much but the one aspect I enjoy with my EML's is the almost "bigger than life sound". Other tubes, regardless their charms, just sound "wimpy" next to them. Yet, as you mention they are smooth, "lush" and the detail! What of their perspective? Near-field, recessed? Sure wish I had a pair :cry:
MikE
sasaki kojiro
Active Member
Re: Cool
They image a bit better, but I am waiting on that because imaging is a trait that tends to accompany burn-in. As to bias, my amp is self biasing. These are very special sounding tubes. Too bad about the microphonics though.
I'd really like to order a pair of solid plates, but have lost confidence in EML. Seems like all the projects V has been involved in has produced products of inconsistent quality.
According to the shipping instructions, if the tubes are packed per there directives, they will warrant the tubes. I'm highly disappointed that they allowed the participants of this project to have to undergo the time consuming process of the postal ins. claim, not to mention the uncertainty of the claims in the first place. They set a precedent by sending out those three extra sets, and I believe they are bound to honor those for whom replacement are unavailable. The failure rate for this small run of tubes indicates substandard construction.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have the info at hand. One set was gassy upon arrival in the U.S. Another set had a getter fall off (?!?) enroute to its U.S. destination. Another set was cracked, and another (replacement) set was rejected by it recipient. I recall only one that arrived with a visibly damaged box.
I'm going to try to contact other disappointed EML owners to try to get a clearer picture.
They image a bit better, but I am waiting on that because imaging is a trait that tends to accompany burn-in. As to bias, my amp is self biasing. These are very special sounding tubes. Too bad about the microphonics though.
I'd really like to order a pair of solid plates, but have lost confidence in EML. Seems like all the projects V has been involved in has produced products of inconsistent quality.
According to the shipping instructions, if the tubes are packed per there directives, they will warrant the tubes. I'm highly disappointed that they allowed the participants of this project to have to undergo the time consuming process of the postal ins. claim, not to mention the uncertainty of the claims in the first place. They set a precedent by sending out those three extra sets, and I believe they are bound to honor those for whom replacement are unavailable. The failure rate for this small run of tubes indicates substandard construction.
Correct me if I'm wrong, as I don't have the info at hand. One set was gassy upon arrival in the U.S. Another set had a getter fall off (?!?) enroute to its U.S. destination. Another set was cracked, and another (replacement) set was rejected by it recipient. I recall only one that arrived with a visibly damaged box.
I'm going to try to contact other disappointed EML owners to try to get a clearer picture.
Last edited:
That's Not Good
All that in a single batch of a dozen pairs?
If that is true, there is no excuse for that kind of QC (or lack there of). Ive had tubes shipped from all over the place without that kind of problem.
I am truely sorry that you folks have had these problems.
You have my sympathy. I hope the ones that did survive have a decent lifespan.
Jack
All that in a single batch of a dozen pairs?
If that is true, there is no excuse for that kind of QC (or lack there of). Ive had tubes shipped from all over the place without that kind of problem.
I am truely sorry that you folks have had these problems.
You have my sympathy. I hope the ones that did survive have a decent lifespan.
Jack
Robert Hutton
New Member
I have a pair of the EML Globes, courtesy of Ed with thanks. This is not really in response to Jack's post, but to other posts in the thread.
Mine arrived perfect, to Canada. The tubes are great. Not miles ahead of the solid plates, but worthwhile.
I don't recall that, other than Mike's unfortunate accident - and the matter of a getter ring falling off (annoying, but not a tube killer) that there have been problems. Jac can't be faulted for the accident with Mike's, no one in their right mind would think that Jac shipped them this way.
From the outset, Jac was VERY clear that these tubes were very fragile due to the lack of support in their construction, and that he really didn't like making them because of this. Still, he was asked to undertake a risky experiment, and he did so. His yield on the tubes was much lower than he expected due to the difficulty in making them, yet he honored his quoted price - and as a result couldn't have made a whole lot of green from the venture.
Everyone going in knew that this was a project with risks. They are hand made, and JAC was very clear that they were difficult to build due to the lack of support side to side - and the factory hated making them. To complain about a slight bit of off-centering is being very anal and is to disavow the premise of the experiment - everyone knew going in that this was a new experiment, with results unknown, and that they were made by hand with difficulty.
Claiming that Jac is forcing people to file postal insurance claims is not only totally false, it is a complete misrepresentation of the facts. Jac cut a deal with Ed and Ed only, and shipped them to Ed. If Ed received any pairs damaged, he would deal with Jac directly for that. Anyone who received a pair from Ed damaged would deal with Ed for the claim, and it's safe to assume that Ed checked what he received from Jac before he shipped them.
Them are the facts. I hope we can encourage Jac to make some more and refine the construction even more. They are sonically a worthwhile tube.Anal types and those who accepted being guinea pigs but couldn't handle the pressure need not apply.
Mine arrived perfect, to Canada. The tubes are great. Not miles ahead of the solid plates, but worthwhile.
I don't recall that, other than Mike's unfortunate accident - and the matter of a getter ring falling off (annoying, but not a tube killer) that there have been problems. Jac can't be faulted for the accident with Mike's, no one in their right mind would think that Jac shipped them this way.
From the outset, Jac was VERY clear that these tubes were very fragile due to the lack of support in their construction, and that he really didn't like making them because of this. Still, he was asked to undertake a risky experiment, and he did so. His yield on the tubes was much lower than he expected due to the difficulty in making them, yet he honored his quoted price - and as a result couldn't have made a whole lot of green from the venture.
Everyone going in knew that this was a project with risks. They are hand made, and JAC was very clear that they were difficult to build due to the lack of support side to side - and the factory hated making them. To complain about a slight bit of off-centering is being very anal and is to disavow the premise of the experiment - everyone knew going in that this was a new experiment, with results unknown, and that they were made by hand with difficulty.
Claiming that Jac is forcing people to file postal insurance claims is not only totally false, it is a complete misrepresentation of the facts. Jac cut a deal with Ed and Ed only, and shipped them to Ed. If Ed received any pairs damaged, he would deal with Jac directly for that. Anyone who received a pair from Ed damaged would deal with Ed for the claim, and it's safe to assume that Ed checked what he received from Jac before he shipped them.
Them are the facts. I hope we can encourage Jac to make some more and refine the construction even more. They are sonically a worthwhile tube.Anal types and those who accepted being guinea pigs but couldn't handle the pressure need not apply.
MikE
Color Me Gone
Welcome Robert
I appreciate you wading in with your comments. As there are only 6-7 of us that were involved with the project there is alot of room for speculation on what really happened. Everything you said was known to me and I assume the other parties involved. I had contact with Randy [one of the original buyers but backed out when he sold his JK45 amp], Sasaki and of course numerous emails from Ed. Yes, I realized that this was an "experiment", since this was a new design for them. And during the process was informed about Jac's concerns. If I wanted out at that point there were others people who were ready to take my spot. So while I wasn't "locked in" I wasn't surprized when there were some problems, I just never anticipated broken tubes!
Sure I'm disappointed but don't "blame" anyone. Course, I haven't gotten word on my claim yet, so don't hold me to that
. Enough of that. I hope you hang around and if nothing else post your comments on the EML Globes, seeing I won't be able. I'm sure everyone could benefit from your experience, I sure have!
MikE
I appreciate you wading in with your comments. As there are only 6-7 of us that were involved with the project there is alot of room for speculation on what really happened. Everything you said was known to me and I assume the other parties involved. I had contact with Randy [one of the original buyers but backed out when he sold his JK45 amp], Sasaki and of course numerous emails from Ed. Yes, I realized that this was an "experiment", since this was a new design for them. And during the process was informed about Jac's concerns. If I wanted out at that point there were others people who were ready to take my spot. So while I wasn't "locked in" I wasn't surprized when there were some problems, I just never anticipated broken tubes!
Sure I'm disappointed but don't "blame" anyone. Course, I haven't gotten word on my claim yet, so don't hold me to that
. Enough of that. I hope you hang around and if nothing else post your comments on the EML Globes, seeing I won't be able. I'm sure everyone could benefit from your experience, I sure have!MikE
MikE
Color Me Gone
Yeah
Well, not just a Globe, but a Emission Labs Globe-shaped 45 tube. There were some thoughts that the re-design could possibly affect sonics but there was no promise whatsoever. Having already a pair of their solid-plates I felt comfortable proceding with the project. What can I say, call it silly, but I like globes.
MikE
Well, not just a Globe, but a Emission Labs Globe-shaped 45 tube. There were some thoughts that the re-design could possibly affect sonics but there was no promise whatsoever. Having already a pair of their solid-plates I felt comfortable proceding with the project. What can I say, call it silly, but I like globes.
MikE
Robert Hutton
New Member
Yes, Jack, it was a project to see if we liked EML made globes, if you want to put it so simply.
There was an idea that a globe shaped bottle, without the side support, would sound different, and give a more pure "triode" sound. In fact, despite the difficulties in making the tubes, this is exactly what happened. They do sound different than the solid plates, and are a good sonic improvement in many respects.
It was an experiment, never intended as a commercial product, a one-off thing undertaken on request by Jac, and some people were willing to put up some money to participate, judging that the potential rewards might be worth it, and even if the tubes didn't sound different or better, at least each participant would have a very unique and rare pair of tubes.
But my entire point in my post above is: It wasn't a commercial product, it was a clearly risky experiment undertaken by Jac on specific customer request, and everyone participating was very clearly aware that the tubes were a never before tried experiment.
There was an idea that a globe shaped bottle, without the side support, would sound different, and give a more pure "triode" sound. In fact, despite the difficulties in making the tubes, this is exactly what happened. They do sound different than the solid plates, and are a good sonic improvement in many respects.
It was an experiment, never intended as a commercial product, a one-off thing undertaken on request by Jac, and some people were willing to put up some money to participate, judging that the potential rewards might be worth it, and even if the tubes didn't sound different or better, at least each participant would have a very unique and rare pair of tubes.
But my entire point in my post above is: It wasn't a commercial product, it was a clearly risky experiment undertaken by Jac on specific customer request, and everyone participating was very clearly aware that the tubes were a never before tried experiment.
Robert Hutton
New Member
No, the bottle is more a consequence than the point of the experiment. The globe shape means there is no "pinch" at the top as with the usual large ST-shape, which grips the top mica and holds the structure in place. So really, the biggest difference is that the internal structure is not at all supported - it is completely free in space, and so is much more fragile, and obviously prone to heavy shock in shipping. Jac was very clear on this.
True - in theory, they should be more microphonic. Interestingly, they seem to me to be quieter than the usual EML solid plates. Also, the theory in making them was that, due to the lack of support, there would be virtually no interaction with the bottle, giving better sound. This seems to have been borne out.
Like I said, an experiment with risks to be sure.
True - in theory, they should be more microphonic. Interestingly, they seem to me to be quieter than the usual EML solid plates. Also, the theory in making them was that, due to the lack of support, there would be virtually no interaction with the bottle, giving better sound. This seems to have been borne out.
Like I said, an experiment with risks to be sure.
Interesting
I have some Cunningham CX-310s from 1926 that are unsuported globes. Actually, most of the globe 10 types are unsupported. They didn't seem to have serious problems with them. Sonically, they weren't as good as their later offspring, but thats a seperate issue.
Jack
I have some Cunningham CX-310s from 1926 that are unsuported globes. Actually, most of the globe 10 types are unsupported. They didn't seem to have serious problems with them. Sonically, they weren't as good as their later offspring, but thats a seperate issue.
Jack
