Schlit DACs

Perhaps you have seen some other testing that I am not aware of. Of all the testing I have seen, his measurements have been validated. I don't understand what the point would be to invest thousands of dollars in test equipment to simply denigrate certain DACs. Whats the point. Perhaps I missed it.

I didn't say "denigrate DAC's", he will denigrate people personally, there's no debating with the guy, he is lord commander, to the point he made up his own technical reference points to create his own science, Amirbits. So I don't' trust people with that attitude. Done talking about that. there's pages and pages for amusement on the web, no sense in rehashing it all here. Cheers!
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I have ran Schiit DAC's for quite a while and I have always liked their sound, the Modi 3 is certainly no exception!

But now I am in the process of eliminating my stand alone DAC's (already sold one in fact). Why so? Because I am now running my speakers triamped with a MiniDSP 4x10HD and it makes no sense for me to convert a digital signal to analog (digital>Schiit DAC>analog>DSP ADC>digital) only to have to ADC that signal back to digital in the DSP. So as soon as I get the digital input in place I won't be using any Schiit DACs anymore.. And for my analog sources I will probably just find the best ADC I can afford and use that..
This is a bit off subject, but isn't the MiniDSP essentially your DAC? I read the description on their web site. Very interesting. It would be great if you started a dedicated thread with your adventures with that DSP and how you have set up your system.
Yes it is just a DAC.. except with 4 separate outputs and with tools to control the xover points as well as speaker and or room eq.. I think I will start a thread, share what I learned in the process of taking the passive xovers out, driver protection, speaker wire OMG! And tuning the PEQ's xover pts, etc. Maybe I can learn something too with a thread.. Thanks for the idea..
 
How is this a well-known fact? Have you measured these DACs yourself with the same industry standard test equipment? The only well-known fact is that the particular Schiit DACs that were tested measured worse than others using the same test equipment and methodology. There may have been some popular discussions trying to discredit ASR's founder, but they certainly are not established fact.

Yeah, Amir has a big bias against Schiit Audio. I don't follow the debates with him on other forums but several of his measurements have been found to be of little value. For example, he found an artifact that is way below the human thresh hold of hearing, then posted it everywhere as if he had found something useful. It was pointed out to him but he acted like someone who has theoretical knowledge, or book learning one might say, but little actual time in the field.

It's interesting to note that Schiit has become a major player in the DAC market, and has branched out into 2 channel as well. This means that they are taking sales and profits away from many other companies. That people like Amir have started crusades against one singular company does seem somewhat suspect. It may be nothing, but notice the companies he tends to champion. If you think that hidden agendas don't exist on the internet, then there is a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I say this as I tried 2 other DAC brands before I tried the Schiit Modi 2 Uber. They both were inferior in my system. They were both also more expensive. I was surprised to say the least, and immediately took a chance and returned the Modi for a Bifrost Multibit. It has been one of the best decisions I've made audio wise. So I am only a fan of Schiit Audio because they earned it my system. Emotiva, for instance, earned my ire, and that's how I roll. I don't blindly join fads, if it's a good product that sounds excellent and does what it should then it has my vote.

I used to be a measurement guy, if it measures well, then that's all I need to know. Also, expensive cables were all snake oil to me, and it wasn't until I opened my ears and tried some basic solid core speaker cables that I realized that measurements don't tell the whole tale. I almost feel sorry for people that argue for measurements and cheap cable, especially when they have issues with harshness or brightness in their systems.
 
Yeah, Amir has a big bias against Schiit Audio. I don't follow the debates with him on other forums but several of his measurements have been found to be of little value. For example, he found an artifact that is way below the human thresh hold of hearing, then posted it everywhere as if he had found something useful. It was pointed out to him but he acted like someone who has theoretical knowledge, or book learning one might say, but little actual time in the field.

It's interesting to note that Schiit has become a major player in the DAC market, and has branched out into 2 channel as well. This means that they are taking sales and profits away from many other companies. That people like Amir have started crusades against one singular company does seem somewhat suspect. It may be nothing, but notice the companies he tends to champion. If you think that hidden agendas don't exist on the internet, then there is a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I say this as I tried 2 other DAC brands before I tried the Schiit Modi 2 Uber. They both were inferior in my system. They were both also more expensive. I was surprised to say the least, and immediately took a chance and returned the Modi for a Bifrost Multibit. It has been one of the best decisions I've made audio wise. So I am only a fan of Schiit Audio because they earned it my system. Emotiva, for instance, earned my ire, and that's how I roll. I don't blindly join fads, if it's a good product that sounds excellent and does what it should then it has my vote.

I used to be a measurement guy, if it measures well, then that's all I need to know. Also, expensive cables were all snake oil to me, and it wasn't until I opened my ears and tried some basic solid core speaker cables that I realized that measurements don't tell the whole tale. I almost feel sorry for people that argue for measurements and cheap cable, especially when they have issues with harshness or brightness in their systems.

Yep .. I think Jack Nicholson's character quote from the 1990 film The Two Jakes .. said it best.

Jake Gittes:
You can follow the action, which gets you good pictures. You can follow your instincts, which'll probably get you in trouble. Or, you can follow the money, which nine times out of ten will get you closer to the truth.
 
Yeah while the subject has shifted to Amir's forum I will just add this. I have owned a Schiit Wyrd "decrapifier" for several years and it has really been proven useful for me with my noisy desktop PC. Buzzing, skipping, playing slightly too fast etc etc. It was just crap! Well the Wyrd fixed about 95 percent of it (I could still hear some buzz when I held my ear up to the horn) and made music completely listenable again. Since then I went to a Raspberry PI3 and a Schiit MB on it so was dead quiet without the need for the Wyrd so it sat in a drawer.

Fast forward, a few weeks ago I triamped my system using a MiniDSP and there it was again, that Damned buzzing! But with the miniDSP all the USB does is communicate and update the config file (doesn't play music) so while a hassle, I could simply unplug the USB cable.. Well at about the same time I read the pages and pages of the thread where Amir tested. the Wyrd and found it to do nothing! But he tested it on the specs, and then went at attacking it on the premise that it was supposed to make a USB powered DAC sound better because of its "linear power supply". That part of his argument was true, it likely doesnt do anything to help a DAC sound better because of its power supply.. But he never tested it for its true and only real stated advertised purpose of simply being a "decrapifier". IOW Amir never ran the thing from a computer with known USB noise issue (Yeah there are computers out there with USB troubles) but rather presented it as a gimmick that Schiit is using that is "Snake Oil" as the ASR Schiit hecklers called. it. Hell I was almost ready to believe it myself when the MiniDSP 4x10HD came and truly hated my PC's USB until I remembered the Wyrd and put it into the USB off the PC and the Mini plugged into the Wyrd. It simply cleared it up magnificently! But you would never know that if all you did was take ASR's opinion of it as gospel..

But ASR is good for at least one thing, its a great place to get Schiit jokes! If that sort of thing that gets you off...
 
Thing is, if Wyrd helps in a particular situation chances are a $15 powered USB hub will do too.
 
Thing is, if Wyrd helps in a particular situation chances are a $15 powered USB hub will do too.
Ok, well my DAC WAS running off a $15 powered hub BEFORE! And ran straight off the USB as well. Nope, not a true power issue (but maybe an interference issue from the PS).. In fact with the MiiniDSP, that USB requires no power, ZERO and yet it fixed that problem as well..
What is it with you, you sit around schiit threads hitting refresh all day?
In the case with amir and his/her test on the wyrd, it was amir that was full of it..
So heckle away..
 
Don't ask me why but I have 2 Wyrds in my drawer. My experience was they did not provide any benefit over a powered USB hub when I had USB issues, and for the purpose of removing a high pitched noise leaking from my PC they were pretty useless, same goes for the mentioned hub.
 
Don't ask me why but I have 2 Wyrds in my drawer. My experience was they did not provide any benefit over a powered USB hub when I had USB issues, and for the purpose of removing a high pitched noise leaking from my PC they were pretty useless, same goes for the mentioned hub.
Well gee, I shoulda added YMMV but I thought that was a given..
 
Don't ask me why but I have 2 Wyrds in my drawer. My experience was they did not provide any benefit over a powered USB hub when I had USB issues, and for the purpose of removing a high pitched noise leaking from my PC they were pretty useless, same goes for the mentioned hub.

I seriously doubt that you are stupid enough to have 2 wyrds sitting in a drawer. You certainly are one of about three posters on this site that are seriously anti Schiit.

Look at your response to alobar. You belittle him and throw in some sarcasm for good measure. There is plenty of cheap junk out there, I know this because I’ve certainly bought my share of it. But Schiit products set a new standard for performance vs price ratios, and it’s plain to anyone who does an a/b comparision.

That you can’t tell that the sky is blue in this case, when you’re obviously not a stupid person, is curious.
 
Well, may be I am...

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As for belittling, well, if it happened please accept my apologies, that was not my intention. He shared his opinion I shared mine. I did not get personal however. He did.
 
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Yeah, Amir has a big bias against Schiit Audio. I don't follow the debates with him on other forums but several of his measurements have been found to be of little value. For example, he found an artifact that is way below the human thresh hold of hearing, then posted it everywhere as if he had found something useful. It was pointed out to him but he acted like someone who has theoretical knowledge, or book learning one might say, but little actual time in the field.

It's interesting to note that Schiit has become a major player in the DAC market, and has branched out into 2 channel as well. This means that they are taking sales and profits away from many other companies. That people like Amir have started crusades against one singular company does seem somewhat suspect. It may be nothing, but notice the companies he tends to champion. If you think that hidden agendas don't exist on the internet, then there is a bridge I'd like to sell you.

I say this as I tried 2 other DAC brands before I tried the Schiit Modi 2 Uber. They both were inferior in my system. They were both also more expensive. I was surprised to say the least, and immediately took a chance and returned the Modi for a Bifrost Multibit. It has been one of the best decisions I've made audio wise. So I am only a fan of Schiit Audio because they earned it my system. Emotiva, for instance, earned my ire, and that's how I roll. I don't blindly join fads, if it's a good product that sounds excellent and does what it should then it has my vote.

I used to be a measurement guy, if it measures well, then that's all I need to know. Also, expensive cables were all snake oil to me, and it wasn't until I opened my ears and tried some basic solid core speaker cables that I realized that measurements don't tell the whole tale. I almost feel sorry for people that argue for measurements and cheap cable, especially when they have issues with harshness or brightness in their systems.

What did I say that would elicit this response from you? I have never been anti-Schiit. In fact, I own several pieces of Schiit to include the EITR, the Mani, and the Modi Multibit DAC. All I said is that I have not seen any factual information to prove to me that Amir has done anything untoward in his measurement of Schiit DACs - or any other DAC for that matter. No, I'm not going to buy your bridge. What is a fact is that subsequent to the publication of Yggy test data, Schiit made at least two upgrades to the Yggy to address issues. Just because your favorite manufacturer makes gear that doesn't measure as good as other some other manufacturers is no reason to claim there is some kind of bias going on with the one doing the measuring. His measurements of Schiit's latest Modi3 shown that it performs admirably. Is he biased for this test too? These are measurements that provide a way to objectively compare the performance of DACs using industry standard test equipment and test procedures. What is a fact is that there is a certain contingent of people on forums openly engaged in denigrating Amir and claiming to know all kinds of things about the guy and making a lot of accusations. All I asked for is some real facts that prove conclusively that he is fudging measurement data against Schiit. Do you have any evidence of that? If you do, lets see it. A bunch of people saying he is this or that on Schiit fanboy forums are not facts. I only deal with facts and facts alone.

My experience with Schiit products from a personal perspective is this - I no longer use my Schiit Modi Multibit. It didn't sound "bad", but it was no better than the built-in DAC on my CD player. In fact, my Aragon D2A2 bested it considerably (BTW, I read that Mike Moffat had a hand in designing it.) I currently use a Chord Qutest (which measures extremely well) and sounds absolutely phenomenal. I do still use the Mani from time to time when I run a MM cartridge and it sounds great. The EITR I have not used in a while. I was using the EITR to allow me to run a vintage DAC with my PC and it did a great job.

A lot of people did not like the test data of the Yggy when it came out. I believe in total 4 different versions of Yggy have been tested with similar test data. There have been discussions that maybe this is due to the unique filter employed. Whatever the case, the data is the data. I expect better measured performance from a piece of equipment that claims to be an "end game" DAC. There are other high end DACs that deliver measured performance in spades. I find that interesting. However, I have not seen (or heard) of anyone that can deliver any factual information that this test data is inaccurate. I have followed the back and forth on different forums and all I have seen is a bunch of finger pointing and rhetoric. I want to know if anyone can prove this. That is all. Anybody? - AND I don't believe I have ever said that measurements tell the whole tale. I love my Cardas Clear speaker cables...
 
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1) I never said you were anti Schiit. Anywhere.

2) I clearly said I don’t follow the anti Schiit debates on the other forums. It’s also clear that you follow them regularly, and that’s fine. Amir and his science site are clearly biased, believe whatever makes you happy.
 
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I use a Yggdrasil. Mine took a month of continuous on time before it sounded better than my previous DAC (Lavry DA10). Now that it has broken in, it easily resolves the sonic differences in the equipment used to record and mix the CD's, so the DAC is not limiting the sound quality of my digital playback. The Yggdrasil is transparent, has the proper amount of well defined highs and lows, and on a well recorded CD it does not suffer from the typical digital sound hardness.

Comparing a well recorded CD with an well made album, it sounds very slightly better than my pretty high end vinyl playback equipment (Clearaudio Maestro v2, SOTA Comet, McIntosh C45). I suspect vinyl suffers slightly because of the slight speed and stylus geometry variations (due to album center hole accuracy, flatness, and thickness) that are inherent in a vinyl album vs digital.
 
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