Seperation

Discussion in 'DACs' started by jt1135, Feb 21, 2018.

  1. jt1135

    jt1135 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Have been listening exclusively to vinyl and cd's the last couple of weeks then listened to Spotify for a few hours. Before I did the analog run I thought Spotify sounded pretty good now I think it sucks. If I could get better channel separation it would help immensely. Using a dragonfly red and Spotify premium. Besides listening I can see the meters on my M80 and it almost seems like the digital sound is in mono. Guessing a better DAC could fix this?
     

     

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  2. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    I think that any DAC have pretty good stereo separation. Also think that DAC not cause that "mono" sound what you have when listen digital music. Problem may to be in sound source or possible wrong adjustment in your digital path.
     
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  3. jt1135

    jt1135 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Thanks FF, I'll do some snooping.
     
  4. botrytis

    botrytis Trying not to be a Small Speaker Hoarder Subscriber

    Also, streaming IS NOT the best source to compare with.
     
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  5. jt1135

    jt1135 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Very true botrytis. I guess I just got spoiled after the vinyl and cd's.
     
  6. botrytis

    botrytis Trying not to be a Small Speaker Hoarder Subscriber

    CD's are if it is new or can be digitally connected to a newer DAC. The reason people dislike digital is because, when it first came out, the technology to play was not as good as the recording side.

    The early DAC's ring like anything - this is where people get the idea that digital rings, it did - it really doesn't now.
     
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  7. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    Make sure volume normalization is off in Spotify. Also Windows Spotify app sucks because it doesn't allow direct access to the DAC, and instead sends signal through the OS mixer that affects sound quality and not in a good way.
     
  8. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.spotify.music&hl=en
    Android OS itself have passthrough audio stream thru SPDIF/TOSLINK or HDMI output without to use any internal decoder on Android device. This is especialy useful option in any Android TV Box. My Adroid TV Box is connected on this way and HDMI cable is provided directly to TV then from TV to Receiver DAC 192/48 thru TOSLINK cable with untouchable signal. TV also have passthrough from HDMI to TOSLINK.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  9. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about your TV Box but my Android phone just resamples everything to the max sampling frequency it can do or the DAC can do, over USB, when playing Spotify at least. If I connect a 384kHz max DAC the phone resamples to 192kHz, if I connect a 96kHz max DAC the phone resamples to 48Khz. And it doesn't sound very good after resampling, especially at 192.

    What's 192/48 anyway? Did you mean 192/24? If this is what you see on the receiver then your Android box resamples as well. When playing Spotify it should be 44.1kHz/16bit w/out resampling on the way. Even then it is no indication the signal didn't go through some processing in the operating system.

    The simplest way to get Spotify stream in the original bit-format (not quite bit-perfect as it is compressed to begin with, but at least bit-perfect after the compression) is through a Chromecast Audio gizmo and its optical output. It will be jittery but still better than what you get out of the Windows Spotify App.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
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  10. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, my mistake... receiver have internal 192/24 DAC as max sampling frequency but it decode audio depends on its source. If I have source with 44/16 he decode this audio with 44/16.

    MX Player have option for passthrough audio on Android device... I`m not sure does it can play Spotify but I go to check...
    https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mxtech.videoplayer.ad&hl=hr
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  11. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    Sure it does, but does it indicate the format it is receiving when you're playing Spotify?
     

     

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  12. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    In my country Spotify is not alloved. I can to say that any other source can be provided on its original bit rate to receiver and receiver decode its audio on that same bit rate as source have. My CD Player is connected to receiver thru TOSLINK and receiver decode that audio signal without resampling, right on 44/16. If I use VLC Player from my computer and play HD Audio or e.g. DVD video then passthrough audio to receiver he decode that signal on Dolby Digital or DTS sound depend on source. Receiver does not have any resampling chip and option for resample.
     
  13. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    Ok, this makes sense and also means we've just established is that we don't know if the Android TV box you mentioned reprocesses Spotify audio prior to sending it out over SPDIF. Chances are it does as Android typically resamples everything. There are apps out there that can bypass the resampling, but Spotify isn't one of them.
     
  14. jt1135

    jt1135 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I

    Chromecast (which I have)>hdmi into anthem mrx310>output from zone 2 into Yamaha c65 preamp?
     
  15. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    Maybe, does the Anthem say 44.1/16 anywhere when you're playing Spotify?
     
  16. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    Android TV box can to passthrough any audio signal. It have Option for audio passthrough in own Android OS. KODI Media Player also have passthrough option inside own settings and have Spotify addon. You can try to install KODI Media Player on your Android phone the install Spotify addon and enable passthrough in KODI settings.
     

     

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  17. gvl

    gvl Well-Known Member

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    Passthrough means different things. For DTS it just means do not decode internaly and send out a compressed DTS stream for decoding externally. I don't know what pass-through means for Spotify, if this means send the OGG stream uncompressed I'm not convinced the receiver will be able to decode it if received compressed audio in the OGG format over SPDIF, and certainly all DACs won't be able to. Any Spotify player, be it the original Spotify app or a Kodi plugin, needs to decode the OGG (or maybe AAC depending what Spotify API it is using) stream to 44.1/16 PCM first, and then send it out. This is when bad things can happen. If pass-through means it can send it bypassing the Android audio mixer stack all is good, but if it is using the standard audio output API it will be routed through the Android audio stack and likely modified. I'd need to try Kodi to confirm how it works. But typically pass-through means do not unfold the encoded format in the app and send it out as-is, as opposed to bypass the OS mixer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  18. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    If OGG file played at 44/16 then box decode that ogg audio file with its audio sample rate thru SPDIF out. Same thing is for any audio file. I have S912 SoC inside box which is capable to decode many audio formats in hardware mode.

    Audio Decoder and Input/Output
    • Supports MP3, AAC, WMA, RM, FLAC, Ogg and programmable with 7.1/5.1 down-mixing
    • I2S audio interface supporting 8-channel (7.1) input and output
    • Built-in serial digital audio SPDIF/IEC958 output and PCM input/output
    • Built-in stereo audio DAC
    • Dual-channel digital microphone PDM input
    • Supports concurrent dual audio stereo channel output with combination of analog+PCM or I2S+PCM
     
  19. jt1135

    jt1135 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Not using the anthem at the moment running Spotify thru windows. Maybe tomorrow I'll have time and try running thru chromecast.
     
  20. mkane

    mkane AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Not to thread jack but anyone has opinions on Tidal Hi-Fi?
     

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