Shibata (S70EX4) recommendation for Goldring/Excel ES-70S Cartridge

Discussion in 'Turntables' started by its_chicken!, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    So what does that mean sound wise with the Shibata stylus? How does changing the resistive loading to raise the high end affect the sound in the lower registers?
     
  2. wualta

    wualta < Spike Milligan, 1961

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    If you're asking about the Fidelitone stylus, listening at 100k ohms loading doesn't affect the sound in the lower registers except theoretically and subjectively-- the old question: Are you hearing more highs or less bass? In this case, since the effect is way up high, it's not going to be heard as less bass in most systems.
     
  3. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Sorry, I thought somewhere I read about upping the preamp impedance to 100k instead of 47k when using the non ex4 versions because the Shibata is designed for the response of the ex4 and with the other bodies the highs can be rolled off. Does changing the impedance mostly change the high end or does it change the response across the board? Are there any downsides to doing this?
     
  4. wualta

    wualta < Spike Milligan, 1961

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    You were correct, the EX4 body has half the inductance of the S body, so the original styli meant for them are voiced differently, which means there's an audible difference in [only] the top two octaves when they're swapped, which can be mostly compensated for with a change in R load. Generics tend to be voiced for the body that sold in the greatest numbers, but there are exceptions.

    The best way to get a feel for the change is to get/borrow an RIAA stage with variable R loading. Usually this is a tweak. Sometimes, with a cartridge that lacks a significant high-frequency peak, you hear very little difference. Sometimes the difference blows your eyebrows off. So yes, there's sometimes a downside, but the idea is that you have the freedom to shape the response curve to your liking in the high treble without introducing more active stages (noise, distortion, anomie, &c).
     
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  5. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I've got a Muffsy CNC kit, I believe 100k is one of the dip switch options.
     
  6. wualta

    wualta < Spike Milligan, 1961

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    You're going to have fun. With a name like "Muffsy", how could it be otherwise?

    I should mention that the "710-HE" from Gary has no need of any sort of treble boost, at least not in my system. But I don't feel strongly tempted to load it at 22k as I do with styli like the ATN440MLa, either.

    Anyone looking for an inexpensive ES-70 body to experiment/play with should know there are several clones, including the Lenco M100, one of which is on eBay currently.
    Lenco M-100-a.jpg
    PHOTO BY JOHANNES LEBONG
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
  7. its_chicken!

    its_chicken! New Member

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    Howdy!

    An update...

    The stylus arrived down here in hot n' humid Sydney and boy oh boy does it sound glorious. A few hours in and I'm lovin' it. Exactly what the doctor ordered.

    Thanks again for the tip fellas.
     
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  8. wualta

    wualta < Spike Milligan, 1961

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    Thanks for the report! Very glad it worked out well.
    I in turn should take a moment to thank AKer KSM74 for tipping me off to this stylus's existence last August.
     
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  9. KSM74

    KSM74 New Member

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    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
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  10. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    How does this compare to the specs of the stock Goldring cart?

    Mine hasn't come yet. Still excited. :)

    Off topic-I'd love to hear the phono stage listed on that page. Looks killer.
     
  11. KSM74

    KSM74 New Member

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    Goldring or Marlux? ;)
    One Marlux goes to me. :beerchug:
    wualta, with 2 grams of tracking the combo ES70S&DN-25 is passes Bangles-test for sybilants?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  12. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I was wondering if the suspension was a different compliance as compared to the standard Excel version based on that spec. :)
     
  13. wualta

    wualta < Spike Milligan, 1961

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    Yes, it does. It impressed me enough to make me seek out other DFR-distributed styli. With one exception, they've been excellent.
    Not sure what you're asking, but if you want to know if the compliance of the DN-25 differs from the "standard" ES-70S conical, then yes, but not all that much. Good generic ellipticals (aimed at copying the EX stylus) exist, and track well at 1.5g or a little less. I've never been able to try a genuine Excel EX4 stylus, so if that was your question, I don't know the answer.
     
  14. KSM74

    KSM74 New Member

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    What needles did not like?
     
  15. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I meant in comparison to the EX4. For some reason I thought the Excel version was rated for a lower tracking force than the 2g mentioned in the Onkyo spec posted.
     
  16. wualta

    wualta < Spike Milligan, 1961

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    These are all generics, so hard n fast specs are elusive at best. Basically you learn to judge the amount of suspension flex or "sink" and try the cartridge on a known-good/tough test record and see if the diamond likes staying against the groove walls. The nice thing about a line-contact stylus is the leeway you have. Stylus needs 3g? more? No problem, as long as the suspension isn't overly stressed.
     
  17. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Is that because the line contact has more surface area in contact, so they can handle more tracking force without causing damage?
     
  18. wualta

    wualta < Spike Milligan, 1961

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    Egg zackly.
     
  19. KSM74

    KSM74 New Member

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    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018 at 12:32 AM
  20. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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