Shure M3D or GE VR II in my Type A: Your opinion(s) please

[ivan100000]

Gentlemen:

After years of my Garrard Type A/Lab Series barking, I have finally taken the initiative to get it to the one repair guy an hour away who is competent. Apart from having the roller redone by Terry's Rubber Rollers three or 4 years ago, I don't think it has ever been serviced. The problems: it cannot track any lighter than 4.5 grams or it skips; the trip mechanism kicks in too early; and the LP records will frequently skip @45 seconds before the end of the side. The tech advises that he will go through it and can have it tracking with my current M3D at 3 grams with no problems.

This is part of a dedicated mono system where I *only* play pre-1968 LPs with no reissues, no 45s, and no 78s.

Now that you know the situation, my dilemma is whether I should stay with the Shure M3D/NOS N3D stylus that I just put in, or have him set it up with my other Garrard Type A headshell containing a NOS GE VR II (it's the "broadcast" model with the red body) and a 1 mil stylus. The Shure cart is ok to track as light as 3 grams, but the GE needs to be set a bit heavier, and as I'm not a tinkerer, I do not want to get involved in messing with the VTF once it is set.

Thank you for your suggestions.

 

[johnjhazel]

The GE VR-II will give you a more unique experience as it is variable reluctance with the signal generated at the stylus tip rather than the opposite(from the stylus) end of the cantilever. Pfanstiehl makes brand new styli for the VR-II here in the States. If you need help obtaining a new stylus for the GE VR-II, PM me.

 

[monkboughtlunch]

Have you considered a Shure SC35C at 4.5g?

 

[ivan100000]

Hello John-- How do you like the new Pfanstiehl compared to a NOS? I assume this is a 1 mil diamond, correct? I briefly A/B'ed the Shure M3D and the GE VR II and I really couldn't hear any difference: both sounded great. What makes me nervous--and I don't mean to open a can of worms--is the issue of using a 1 mil stylus on a mid-60s mono record.

MBL-- I'm inclined to stay with the two I already have and not drop more $$ into this.

 

[johnjhazel]

Hello John-- How do you like the new Pfanstiehl compared to a NOS? I assume this is a 1 mil diamond, correct? I briefly A/B'ed the Shure M3D and the GE VR II and I really couldn't hear any difference: both sounded great. What makes me nervous--and I don't mean to open a can of worms--is the issue of using a 1 mil stylus on a mid-60s mono record.

MBL-- I'm inclined to stay with the two I already have and not drop more $$ into this.

I have never tried a NOS vs new Pfanstiehl. However, I have tried hundreds of NOS for the GE VR 1000 and almost all are garbage. Pfanstiehl is overseen by Scott Webster and he insists on a quality product. I will not post prices on here but if you PM me, I can provide more info. A 1 mil is the proper size for mono records.

 

[gadget73]

One advantage to the M3D or the SC35C is they will play stereo records without damaging anything. The VRII has the advantage if you want to play 78 often since its a turn of a knob to change the stylus. I'd probably be inclined to run a Shure honestly. I run a GE RPX in my RC88 because it was never wired for stereo, and I have enough stereo machines that I can afford to run the RC88 as a dedicated 78 machine.

 

[MRL_Audio]

Me... I’d roll with the GE just for the outstanding but unique sound it can provide.

 

[dosmalo]

Personally, I just want to see another pic of your beautiful Type A!
I love that thing!

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Shure M3D. The best available for your Garrard Type A, and what in my area most Type A changers were fitted with from new. And can play Stereo discs from the era reasonably well, also has Jico styli available which are comparable to NOS Shure.

 

[johnjhazel]

Depending on the weights of the two cartridges, you may be able to use both without adjusting anything. There are such things as headshell weights. All of my Pickering that are mounted in Lab 80 headshells have weights. You may luck out without adding or subtracting anything. Try it. You would need a stylus force gauge to test and then adjust the headshell weight.

 

[johnjhazel]

Shure M3D. The best available for your Garrard Type A, and what in my area most Type A changers were fitted with from new. And can play Stereo discs from the era reasonably well, also has Jico styli available which are comparable to NOS Shure.

The N3D is a modern type stylus. The VR-II stylus is crude. There is no suspension. There is a twist in the metal armature(cantilever) allowing side to side motion for monaural records only. The rubber blocks are for dampening only.

 

[ivan100000]

Thanks for the advice; much appreciated. Again, I will never be playing stereo LPs or 78s on this system: just pre-1968 mono LPs.

 

[dosmalo]

Bravo!
@ivan10000 that is one sexy, beautiful Type A.
If I ever run across one like it I'm snatching it up in a heartbeat.
I have a nice Type A but nothing like yours.
Thanks!

 

[sberger]

Thanks for the advice; much appreciated. Again, I will never be playing stereo LPs or 78s on this system: just pre-1968 mono LPs.

View attachment 1259839
View attachment 1259840

Cool room, but I think you need one of these to finish it off:

 

[ivan100000]

Hi SBerger--

I do have a little 1959 Hotpoint TV that worked ok with rabbit ears up until the changeover that requires a special box, but I never got one. I have enough trouble keeping my tube audio stuff going; tube TVs are more than I can handle!

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I like the M3D for mono very well too. It excelled at mono in that era.

 

[sberger]

Hi SBerger--

I do have a little 1959 Hotpoint TV that worked ok with rabbit ears up until the changeover that requires a special box, but I never got one. I have enough trouble keeping my tube audio stuff going; tube TVs are more than I can handle!

View attachment 1259887

That'll work. Really nice space.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Depending on the weights of the two cartridges, you may be able to use both without adjusting anything. There are such things as headshell weights. All of my Pickering that are mounted in Lab 80 headshells have weights. You may luck out without adding or subtracting anything. Try it. You would need a stylus force gauge to test and then adjust the headshell weight.

And headshells for the Garrard Type A arm are reasonably available too. So you could actually have both, if you were so inclined. And easy to switch between the two options. And also, the GE VR II is a nice 78 RPM choice if you discover some which interest you.

 

[johnjhazel]

I like the M3D for mono very well too. It excelled at mono in that era.

I will never state anything negative about Shure cartridges. My first cartridge was a M44-5 that I bought as a teenager in 1969. Almost 50 years ago. I recommended them for decades. I have owned various V15 models. I do not think that any other brand of cartridge has more aftermarket styli available. With some hunting, even OEM styli can be found for them. Shure should have hung in there during the CD era as Grado, A/T, Ortofon, London, and others did. Peter Pritchard's birthday is later this month. I was thinking that without him, G.E.'s first stereo cartridge probably would have the VR-II stylus with one more bend to handle vertical movement. Just put another twist in that Roy !

 

[charlesdemar]

I have an Garrard RC 121 that tracked a lot better after I loosened the tonearm, dealt with the microscopic ball bearings, and cleaned the bearing race. It was pretty dirty. I'm planning on doing the same with my Type A when I work up the nerve. It's a bit of a harrowing experience.