Shure Realistic V15 RS: What type V15?

[pilotputz]

Hey out there in AK land!

I have a question about a V15 RS. I have heard of late that Jico makes new styli for the V15s. I was curious what type V15 the RS is. I have a type III that I love but I don't think they're the same. I was thinking that it was probably a type IV.

Anybody out there in the know?

Thanks!!
Pilot

 

[hakaplan]

The actual stylus for a V15-RS is a VNSE3HE. It is not compatible with the III or IV. It accepts the large shank, while the III, IV and V accept the narrow shank. JICO does not make a stylus for it, but the thinking was that it was closer to an M cart than a true V15, so you can use an N95ED or HE, or N110HE or even the N97xE will fit it.

Now, in September JICO will begin selling the VN5MR, the stylus for the V15VMR. Back when Shure was still selling the original stylus they were (believe it or not) trying to get rid of stock, so they were recommending it for the V15-RS. The shank is too narrow, but the plastic parts apparently held it together. I don't know, however, if I'd risk $100 plus for the JICO only to find that it isn't satisfactory.

 

[pilotputz]

Hey hakaplan!!
Thanks for the heads-up.
I guess I'm on the lookout for an original. That will either require a lot of time or a lot of money!

 

[fftulip]

I have a NOS VNSE3HE that I got from turntableneedles.com; I don't know if they still have them, it cost me over $100. I bought it because I couldn't get a new stylus for my V15-V, but did get a hold of an old V15-RS. I understand that the V15-RS was based on the V15-V design, cheapened a bit perhaps, but still supposed to be a fine cartridge, and nearly as good (this from a Shure designer). I did try to interchange the old V15-RS stylus with the V15-V, and like Hakaplan says, it is not quite interchangeable (Shure did that on purpose) but could possibly be made to fit.

Now that JICO is going to be offering a V15-V stylus I am looking to get one, and probably will let go of the V15-RS stylus (still unused). Anyone possibly interested in it, PM me.

 

[NoTransistors]

I got several of these RatShack units when they were being closed out, believing as you, that it might be close in design to a V15-something.
The sound was horrible enough to sell them all.
Went back to my Type III and 681EEE.
Pull the guts from the shell. There you will find single-layer pole pieces. Shure went to stacked, multi-layer design beginning with the Type II improved model. That was in 1960-something.
A cheap imitation with inferior sound.

I called Shure, and spoke to an engineer who begrudgingly confirmed my findings.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

 

[Len Horowitz]

V-15

I cut records. The lathe has the original Shure V-15V. It is truly amazing.
It sounds like a tape master-no klunks, no "ess broading"-like it is not mechanical at all.
Everything else seems to fall short. It is quite an evaluation tool.
Radio Shack has never been known for excellance. Most of their styli
product is like a "make run" tune-up. If you ever find a reasonably priced
replacement stIylus the entire record cutting community would like
to hear about it. Export Japan Marketing may have something.
I read it was around 95 bucks- But who has heard it?
I use some odd records to evaluate these P.B. styli;
Hot 60s mono 45s, some late stereo LPs. Some of the RCA
Victor 7" Rock and Roll work well. These are most difficult to track.
The Shure M93 may be better than the RS V15 but alas, it is still very "ragged". It actually sounds
like Shure product from 1963. So, I'm open minded but still looking. Advise

 

[fftulip]

I got several of these RatShack units when they were being closed out, believing as you, that it might be close in design to a V15-something.
The sound was horrible enough to sell them all.
Went back to my Type III and 681EEE.
Pull the guts from the shell. There you will find single-layer pole pieces. Shure went to stacked, multi-layer design beginning with the Type II improved model. That was in 1960-something.
A cheap imitation with inferior sound.

I called Shure, and spoke to an engineer who begrudgingly confirmed my findings.

Seth
Forever Analog and Covered In Parrot Poop

Are we talking about the same Radio Shack cartridge? I believe that the V15-RS is from the 80's and used a modern design but I could be wrong. It could be that there were different versions of the V15 for RS (like the originals, I, II, III, etc), but the Shure cartridge designer, Les Watts (on AudioKarma archives) claims that the V15-RS was as good as a V15-V:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126549

 

[KentTeffeteller]

The Shure/Radio Shack V 15 RS is technically an old M 97 HE variant. The M 97 HE old style stylus is a direct match. This cartridge was one notch down from the Shure V 15 Type IV and nearly as fine on all counts. Jico does make a stylus for it, ask for an old Shure M 97 HE replacement and you're good to go. :tresbon:

 

[Sam Cogley]

I cut records. The lathe has the original Shure V-15V. It is truly amazing.
It sounds like a tape master-no klunks, no "ess broading"-like it is not mechanical at all.
Everything else seems to fall short. It is quite an evaluation tool.
Radio Shack has never been known for excellance. Most of their styli
product is like a "make run" tune-up. If you ever find a reasonably priced
replacement stIylus the entire record cutting community would like
to hear about it. Export Japan Marketing may have something.
I read it was around 95 bucks- But who has heard it?
I use some odd records to evaluate these P.B. styli;
Hot 60s mono 45s, some late stereo LPs. Some of the RCA
Victor 7" Rock and Roll work well. These are most difficult to track.
The Shure M93 may be better than the RS V15 but alas, it is still very "ragged". It actually sounds
like Shure product from 1963. So, I'm open minded but still looking. Advise

Export Japan Marketing is JICO (or at least their major sales agent) - I've never heard a bad thing about one of their styluses. I would assume that their V15-V units will be as good as anything Shure made, and if they make an SAS, it may be better. Their brushes don't have the dampening effect, but looking at the original stylus body for my V15-IV, I think a dab of silicone grease under the hinge caps should fix that.

 

[NoTransistors]

Are we talking about the same Radio Shack cartridge? I believe that the V15-RS is from the 80's and used a modern design but I could be wrong. It could be that there were different versions of the V15 for RS (like the originals, I, II, III, etc), but the Shure cartridge designer, Les Watts (on AudioKarma archives) claims that the V15-RS was as good as a V15-V:
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=126549

Yes. RatShack catalog # 42-2800

 

[fxsuperglide]

About the Shure V15 RS (Radio Shack) and identical V15 Pro-S (Circuit City version?) and VST-III (Ultra Group's entry level version). IMHO, these cartridges were essentially M97 Era IV (actually, Me97HE design) cartridge body with the stylus/cantilever technology of the V15-V. This allowed Shure to build a cartridge with the tracking ability of the V15 at a lower cost (the M97 has a lesser frequency response). Stylus part number was VNSE3HE, and not only fit the aforementioned 3 cartridges, but also fit any of the M97 cartridges, as well as the V15 VxMR body. Unfortunately, this stylus is nearly impossible to find, as is the VN5xMR stylus for the V15 Vx, which would have fit as well. As a note, the "brass spade" (or brass insert) was purposely made slightly larger for the M97 and V15 RS series, so the styli wouldn't fit or interchange with any of the "real" V15 cartridges (such as the original V or V-MR, or even the III and IV that preceded it).

 

[ha1156w]

I'm using an N97EJ in my V15RS. I found the recommended N97xE stylus produced a rather "bright" sound too harsh for my ears while the N97EJ has a more balanced "mellow" sound. Tracking is excellent and impressive.

 

[Sam Cogley]

I have an aftermarket (probably a Pfanstiehl) N97EJ in my RXT4. I think it sounds quite nice.

 

[kconnor]

Any suggestions then for the best available functional replacement stylus for the V15RS? A Shure engineer told me yesterday that the V15RS is the same cartridge as the Shure M111. I quote, “The V15-RS was equivalent to the Shure M111”. He also said “the N111-HE stylus will also fit, as will the VN5MR”. I realize that the VN5MR brass spade is smaller than that of the V15RS. I assume that if Shure is recommending it then it must be a functional replacement for the VNSE3HE stylus if not a perfect physical fit. I’m not really worried about the fit of the VN5MR. I can adapt it to fit the cartridge if it is the best electrical substitute. I’ve read here and other places that also recommends the M97 series styli as physical and functional replacement. JICO now makes an SAS version of the VN5MR and N97 type that use the same cantilever and stylus assembly. Which one will perform the best electrically with the V15RS body, i.e. frequency response, separation etc?

 

[audiojones]

Any suggestions then for the best available functional replacement stylus for the V15RS? A Shure engineer told me yesterday that the V15RS is the same cartridge as the Shure M111. I quote, “The V15-RS was equivalent to the Shure M111”. He also said “the N111-HE stylus will also fit, as will the VN5MR”. I realize that the VN5MR brass spade is smaller than that of the V15RS. I assume that if Shure is recommending it then it must be a functional replacement for the VNSE3HE stylus if not a perfect physical fit. I’m not really worried about the fit of the VN5MR. I can adapt it to fit the cartridge if it is the best electrical substitute. I’ve read here and other places that also recommends the M97 series styli as physical and functional replacement. JICO now makes an SAS version of the VN5MR and N97 type that use the same cantilever and stylus assembly. Which one will perform the best electrically with the V15RS body, i.e. frequency response, separation etc?

You can use any of the current Shure HI FI styli in that body (I don't know about the DJ styli). I use the cheap red M92 stylus for rough records, and I currently have a genuine N105E (yellow) stylus in mine. Shure told me to use the N111E stylus (and I bought it from them when they were still in Evanston) and it is identical to the M97xe stylus except that it is black. You can also use the currently available green 78 rpm stylus in it. I have used all except the 78 stylus and had no issues whatsoever with ill fitting shanks or stylus grips. Basically it's the newer Shure body without the black paint.

 

[hakaplan]

Shure's claims have always been dubious, and the people there today, while well meaning, are clueless. Shure has no current interest in hi-fi carts and is not developing anything, so there are no experts there.

The internals of the V15VMR and the M carts are different. Most M cart bodies are the same--he told you M111 because that's what was being sold at the time. If the V15RS is really an M cart (which makes sense) then why would the VN5MR work? The answer: Back at that time (in the 90's I believe) Shure was trying to get rid of their stock of VN5MR styli. Once they ran out of RS styli they told people to use the VN5MR. Since the shaft is too thin, it uses the plastic parts to hold it onto the body--and that will work. But as to what it will sound like--that's anyone's guess.

So no one really knows what will work in the V15RS, but if it really is just an M cart, then any N stylus will work. The V15Vx shaft will fit, but again, no one knows what that concoction will sound like.

 

[audiojones]

I can tell you that I own these styli and have been using them in the V15RS cart for a number of years. I do not know about the VN5MR, but I frequently exchange the styli from my M97xe and M92 carts with the V15RS body and I use the N105E with no issues at all. I am currently using the N105E because I'm saving the N111E in case the M97xe or the V15RS needs it in the future. I can tell you that the styli that I have mentioned above sound great and have no diminished output or other issues at all in the V15RS. I can not tell the V15RS from the M97xe in a side by side comparison and they appear to be identical up close. The V15RS is a cartridge that I use on a daily basis.

 

[kconnor]

I’ve been thinking (obsessing) about the Radio Shack V15RS and where it fits in the series of Shure branded V15 cartridges. The V15RS are relatively cheap and somewhat plentiful. Seems like the usual source of V15VxMR and V15V-MR cartridge bodies has dried up since JICO introduced their MR and SAS replacement styli. I suspect that when they do turn up on the auction sites the prices will be ridiculously high. I recently bought M97 and M95 bodies to put JICO SAS and HE styli on, basically something to play with. I decided to measure the DC resistance of the coils to get a rough idea of their condition. Both M cartridges are nearly the same and close to the spec (1550 ohm), measuring 1525 ohm. Curiosity peaked; I read somewhere that the V15RS might be a variant of the M series so I measured its DC resistance, 975ohm. The DC resistance of the Types II, III and IV are not close to that. The V15V-MR is lower at 810 ohm. The V15VxMR, 1000 ohm. The V15RS also has a Type V body shell not a M type. At 2.5% from 1 kohm, my V15RS is certainly within manufacturing spec for a VxMR. I realize that a static DC resistance measurement doesn’t really tell you that much. I am going to map the coil impedance and inductance for the M97, V15RS, V15V-MR and V15VxMR over frequency using an Agilent 4285A LCR Bridge. Even still there are other factors to consider like core permeability and orientation but I would not be surprised if the V15RS and V15VxMR plots are very much alike.

 

[kconnor]

V15RS is Electrically Identical to the V15xMR

Today I can state unequivocally that the V15RS is not an M series clone. I measured the AC electrical characteristics of the M95, M97, V15RS and V15xMR coils on an Agilent 4285A LCR Bridge. The M95 and the M97 bodies seem to be the same internally judging from my measurements, no surprise there. The V15RS turned out to be a different animal from the M series. Electrically it is identical to the V15xMR. Based on the data I believe that the only differences between the two were the styli and cantilever assemblies. A magnetics component engineer I work with, who by the way is not into audio, helped me out with this experiment. His unbiased opinion judging from the measurement results was that “these things are the same”. There is a remote chance that the physical orientation and spacing of the coils could have been changed between the two cartridges. I doubt it though. The coils' electrical characteristics will certainly dictate that everything associated with the circuit be the same between the two or very close to it. That is if you are trying to couple the pole piece and coils as perfectly as possible. Generally, engineering departments and manufacturers are notorious penny pinchers. I seriously doubt if any internal changes were made to the V15xMR vice the V15RS. Just pull the V15RS prints out, change the cosmetics a bit, source a new stylus and cantilever and you have the V15xMR . I’m confident that you can plug a VN5xMR stylus into your radio shack cartridge and have a functional equivalent to the V15xMR. As an aside, the older M series styli will work well in the M97xE because the coil AC characteristics of the two are so close. So close in fact that the M prefix is very appropriate for the M97xE. The V15RS and the M series cartridges can possibly interchange styli because pragmatically the difference between them may not be enough to cause an audible change in performance. However, I think in the lab you'd find there would be measurable difference.

 

[2channel*]

I wish I had found this 10 hours ago!