So, when did they stop putting spare tires in cars?

Discussion in 'Wheels, Wings, Mud, and Water' started by the skipper, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. BMWCCA

    BMWCCA AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I haven't had a spare tire on my motorcycles in my 47-years of riding. My newest bike comes with an inflator cartridge. I hope I never have to use it.

    I've sold BMWs (and Porsche, Audi, Jaguar . . . ) since 1976. We haven't had spares in new BMWs since around 2006. People seem to have gotten used to Run-Flat Technology tires as manufacturers continue to improve them. We have two models where a temporary spare is a $150 option. Very few take it. None of our M-cars have spares or run-flat tires. The have an inflator/sealer called an M-Mobility Kit. Can't think of anyone who's used one. I own a bunch of BMWs but all of them have full-sized spares on a matching fifth road-wheel. I can't think of the last time I've used one of those, either!
    :dunno:
     
  2. rajoo

    rajoo Less pixels more decibels Subscriber

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    Cost us $150 for used rims ($350 refurbished, they are polished alloy) and $80 per tire retail, plus the mounting and balancing.
    But I probably spent over an hour locating them and then time spent in picking up the tire and having them mounted. I would have happily paid $350 or more for a spare wheel at the time of purchase.
     
    stish likes this.
  3. RamblinE

    RamblinE (╯°□°)╯彡┻━┻ Subscriber

    Wow. I knew what I was getting into with my last car purchase. I did my due diligent research. It sounds like you did not.

    Taking it out on the salesman is just kind of weird. He didn't design and build the car. He didn't load it out with the features that it did or didn't come with. He can't anticipate what will get every different customer's panties in a bunch. Did you not look around the car and go over it looking for all the things that you needed? If the salesman closed the deal then they did everything that they had a "moral obligation" to do. They did what their sales manager and dealership owner wanted them to do. Taking this out on the dealership doesn't do anything to change future production practices or feature sets. It just gets you enshrined as king asshole. Your correspondence is probably shared around there like a joke. I work in a similar environment and trust me, that's all you've achieved. Should have escalated this directly to Hyundai. Simply saying "won't be buying another Hyundai if they don't start coming with spare tires again" would have a lot more of impact on future products then guilt tripping a sales guy about something he shouldn't feel guilty about or emailing an F&I guy about something there's absolute no way he'd care about.
     
  4. rajoo

    rajoo Less pixels more decibels Subscriber

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    So sending a text to a sales person if taking it out on the guy? How do you define 'taking it out'?
    If my correspondence is shared as a joke, so be it. Also never made a threat nor ultimatums, nor did I tell them that I will not buy another Hyundai.
    As far as cars for personal use go, I am in a different class altogether.
    And FWIW, the dealership manager in his email stated that they will be taking this up with Hyundai to incorporate a policy of letting customers know that the car does not come with a spare, just an inflator kit. I consider this to be safety issue especially for unwary customers.
     
    stish likes this.
  5. restorer-john

    restorer-john Super Member

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    The lack of an actual spare tire IS a safety issue without a doubt. In Australia, in many parts of the outback or even across some of our main highways less used, you can die very quickly at the side of the road, in 40degree heat, waiting for another motorist to come and help you. Forget roadside assistance when you are days away from the nearest mechanic.

    In the US, you have 323 Million people spread across an area the same size as Australia (actually <2% greater land mass- that's all)- we have 24 million- so it goes to reason that we can not see a person in the outback for days or weeks.

    If people in other countries will happily trade their own safety and piece of mind, to outsource a simple tyre change to 'roadside assistance' or a tyre destroying inflator kit- more fool them.

    If a bunch of cell towers are down and you've got a flat or run out of fuel- you are essentially stuck and you have to do what people used to do- trudge down the dusty road, open the farm gate, and ask the local farmer for a few litres of fuel or a water pipe to use as a cheater bar to undo the overtightened wheel nuts you can't undo with the crappy wheel brace in the repair kit.

    A car without a spare tire is criminal- it shouldn't be legal to sell one.
     
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  6. 851 SP3

    851 SP3 Active Member

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    because they simply continue to sip their coffee-like drink at starbucks while they wait for the tow company a half mile away to do the manly work for them???

    :D
     
  7. rjw1678

    rjw1678 AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Subaru is still putting compact spare tires in there cars.
     
  8. BMWCCA

    BMWCCA AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Well, there is that. Roadside Assistance is included free for four-years, or through the CPO warranty period.

    The real reason is that there are no run-flats available in the speed-rating the M-cars use on their tires which are usually Michelin Pilots.
     
    stish likes this.
  9. Andyman

    Andyman Scroungus Stereophilus Subscriber

    This is a big part of it too; folks are freaking helpless these days. They even have commercials pandering to the current crop lacking survival skills...

     
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  10. RamblinE

    RamblinE (╯°□°)╯彡┻━┻ Subscriber

    Just do your research. Vote with your dollars. Don't buy a car that doesn't meet your needs. Where I live, most people would rather just call a tow truck and an Uber instead of trying to work on the side of the road praying a distracted driver doesn't turn you into ground turkey.
     
  11. the skipper

    the skipper Amateur Curmudgeon Subscriber

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    Say what you will, but selling a car while knowingly not including a spare without informing the purchaser is like selling a hot dog and not including the necessary condiments needed to enjoy it.

    You should have asked first instead of assuming it's included. After all, just because it's always been part of the bargain from day one doesn't mean it still is.

    Actually, it's worse. At least you can see instantly you don't have the condiments when you take delivery of the product without having to investigate.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
    beat_truck and stish like this.
  12. whoaru99

    whoaru99 Epic Member

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    Funny, regardless cars or old stereo gear, we always hear how the seller should have had some high moral obligation to inform when the buyer feels they slighted /shafted in some way. But, when shoe is on the other foot it's a different story as in, oh well...it's the seller's responsibility to know what they were selling.
     
  13. BMWCCA

    BMWCCA AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    And remember to ask where the crank-handle is, for those days when the battery or starter motor just can't start the car!

    Times change. The aforementioned Korean products have been delivered without spares now for a few years. Perhaps the problem is the buyer made his purchase on-line without the benefit of an informed sales advisor, or a physical inspection of the tens-of-thousands-of-dollars of merchandise he was purchasing. That's not the salesman's fault, or the dealership's.

    Perhaps this is just another casualty of the Wal-Marting of America where we receive no service so we come not to expect any. In the pursuit of the lowest price we let the Internet do our shopping and negotiating. As a fellow consumer, I call it lazy. As someone with over forty-years in the car business I simply say you get what you ask for!

    Caveat Emptor!
     
  14. the skipper

    the skipper Amateur Curmudgeon Subscriber

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    Well, the functionality of the crank handle has been satisfied by the inclusion of a starter motor so it's not really a loss of functionality. So, are you implying that they will soon be removing the starters?

    A flat tire is user replaceable if they have a spare tire, a jack, and they choose to do do, and many do. A dead battery is a different story. As for the tire, the manufacturers take away that choice and don't tell us,

    I'm waiting for them to stop including owners manuals. After all, they can be downloaded on the user's tablet or smart phones which they'll assume everyone has.

    You call the consumer lazy for assuming it's part of the deal like it's always been, Think hot dog analogy. I call it deceptive by not mentioning it. Remember, not all cars have run flat technology and/or roadside service.

    In my forty nine years of buying cars, no salesman has ever pointed out to me the spare tire. They never needed to. Up until I almost bought that Kia, it's simply always been there. As for your proudly claiming to having been an auto salesman, or "informed sales advisor", for forty one years and trying to rationalize this practice, I can see where the public's general perception of them arises.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  15. BMWCCA

    BMWCCA AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    You're just fishing for an argument. About four-posts back you wrote:
    Now you call the sales staff deceptive for not pointing it out?
    I show everyone the storage space in the trunk and point out the fact that on three models, a spare is an option even with run-flat tires. When the customer asks where the spare is, this gives me the opportunity to point out the safety advantages of run-flat technology and the fact that it is only offered on the very top-of-the-line competition but is standard on all of our models.

    But it you'd rather just argue with me when it might appear we actually agree, then go right ahead!

    Cars come with four wheels and tires. How many redundant systems are required on a car for you to be happy? Extra battery? Extra starter? Extra wiper blades? How about a spare fan-belt? BMWs used to supply spare bulbs in their toolkits as well as a full set of spanners and screwdrivers. Now you get a phone number, a towing eye, and a reversible screw-driver. In the old days some cars came with two spare tires mounted behind the front fender, when roads were little more than cattle trails. Motorcycles came with emergency plugging and patching kits where they might have at least supplied an spare inner-tube. But they didn't and don't today. Argue all you want but it's up to the buyer to determine the suitability of any consumer purchase. If they choose to make those decisions on-line without in-store assistance, that is their choice.
     
  16. the skipper

    the skipper Amateur Curmudgeon Subscriber

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    Did you notice that was an analogy dealing with hot dogs to point out the insanity of this situation? No? Re-read it.

    Yes, speaking from hindsight I can say that I should have asked. Had I not stumbled across an article on the interweb, I might be driving a kia with no spare. Some of us learn from (potential) mistakes. You can bet that'll be an initial question when I go for my next car.

    I'd say it looks to me that you're trying to make excuses for salespeole not bringing this to the customers attention. Heaven knows the Kia salesman never mentioned it. And again, you assume that all cars come with run flat tech and road service. Did you forget that I mentioned that before?

    As for the "extra" systems you rail about, now you're just being silly.
     
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  17. Hyperion

    Hyperion Roobarb & Custard Subscriber

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    I just changed my car 2 months ago (a 2013 model), the old one had no spare wheel, just a re-inflation kit (aerosol foam), including a pump :rolleyes:. I don't get many flat tyres, but after a year or so of owning the car I decided to take out 'roadside assistance' insurance just in case a tyre ran flat at an inconvenient time, and was either not recoverable at all with the repair 'kit', or if it did work - simply not fit for purpose for the remainder of my journey or until I could get it changed. The replacement car (a 2017 model), has a 'space saver tyre' with a speed limit, that's ok - at least I can get myself going without any outside help if I need to.

    For as long as I can remember I have carried a very nice breaker bar//knuckle bar in my boot (trunk) with a wheel nut socket as I don't trust the pathetic supplied wheel nut wrench supplied with any car I have ever owned. :) Those air tools used at tyre shops are always set far too tight - I learned that the hard way. :) My knuckle bar has never let me down, no 'pumped up' air tool has beaten it yet. :D
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  18. RamblinE

    RamblinE (╯°□°)╯彡┻━┻ Subscriber

    Salesmen/women are not mind readers. They cannot assume a customers level of research, level of knowledge/expertise, what a customer takes for granted, what a customer assumes a car includes. This just continues to be an issue of bad customers making excuses for not doing their due diligence.
     
    Wildcat likes this.
  19. MannyE

    MannyE Exterminate! Subscriber

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    That's because you're probably lucky not to have constant construction near your house. Come live on my street for a couple of years and get drywall screws and nails in your tires for a while and we'll talk.

    And you wonder why people buy cars online.

    Yes... while it's true that a salesperson can't read the mind of a customer and it would be impossible to know if the customer really wants certain features and expects them, we aren't talking about strange esoteric features like ventilated seats or headlights that steer or cruise control radar or even airbags.

    We are talking about a spare tire which, for over one hundred years has been an integral part of every single automobile ever sold all over the world. Ever.

    Does the customer ever ask if a car has brakes? A motor? If seats are included? Of course not. Because, like the spare tire, these things have been assumed to be part of the car since the beginning of cars. No one thinks to ask if there is a spare in the same way no one thinks to ask if the accelerator is on the right, and the brake on the left and if the gas tank holds more than 5 gallons of gas.

    The responses by automotive sales professionals on here simply serve to highlight the reason most people don't like buying a car. You can spin it all you like, but not telling people there isn't a spare tire when there isn't one (full sized or stupid donut they both get the job done) is being deceptive by omission.
     
  20. RamblinE

    RamblinE (╯°□°)╯彡┻━┻ Subscriber

    I work in sales yes, but not automotive sales.

    Perhaps the idea doesn’t seem so foreign to me because I like B-segment cars. In a lot of them the question becomes “where are you gonna put a spare?” Then when you look at the optional spare, it takes up cargo space, and in my cars case it cost over $400. To reiterate, $400 for a spare tire is what four years of Triple A roadside assistance insurance costs. With tows being pricey I’d be buying the Triple A anyway.

    Again though, I researched all this in the process of shopping. I car shopped for a year and a half before finally making the purchase.

    This whole “cars have always come with them” argument just doesn’t float with me if somebody knows exactly what they’re buying. Who spends thousands of dollars without knowing exactly what they’re buying?
     

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