Solid state or tube integrated amp questions

honestabe316

Oh Chief! - Jane Hathaway
Can anyone point me to a resource (s) where I can get a good understanding of a tube amplification system as opposed to SS. I am interested in going from a Proton D1200 power amp , Clearaudio performance DC turntable, Yamaha ca-2 preamp, and Alon model 1 speakers, to a system with an integrated tube amp with a phono stage....

I want to know things such as how solid state and tubes compare in all ways....cost, maintenance, sound, tube rolling, tube quality between makers and outputs...

I don't have a strong background in electrical theory so any resources that spell things out in layman's terms would be best....

Thanks
 
That is a lot of information needed as there are many variables in SS & tube amp types, designs, configs, power, quality etc. That is why the Solid State & Tube forums here, plus the individual manufacturer forums, New Gear & Vintage Gear forums, have a lot of threads. There are many threads on one vs. the other if you care to search - many get quite heated as some folks hold strong opinions on their choices. Lots of reading is likely needed.

The main point to consider is how the music will sound to you. So, consider looking for a piece of tube equipment that will play nice for your music taste with your speakers in your room environment - assuming you wish to use the same Alon speakers and Clearaudio source. Try to audition equipment so you know what to expect before you buy.

A few comments:
  • If you plan on using the CA-2 you only need a power amp
  • What is the efficiency of the Alon speakers (assuming these are to be matched)? You will need an amp appropriately capable of driving them
  • Consider your budget. Tube types can be inexpensive or extraordinarily expensive, as can also amp designs depending on the quality of components & transformers.
  • if you are contemplating a tube integrated then you can dispense with using the CA-2
  • Your integrated will need a good phono stage or you will need a separate phono amp if your tube integrated choice is line input only
... and so on.

Others will likely comment further
 
The easiest part of those questions to answer are those about a SS integrated. If one were to purchase a brand new SS integrated amp, the odds are that it will work without need of any maintenance for 15-20 years, possibly longer.

But you haven't stated if you are looking for new or used. Or recent year used vs vintage.

As to cost, well, that can range from $200 to $100,000. You might get better advice if you have a specific price range in mind.
 
The other question is whether or not you do want to keep the preamp. Nothing says you can't run a solid state preamp with a tube power amp. I've done it, and I've gone the other way, running an SS power amp with a tube preamp. Tube preamps with big SS power can be a nice way to get a little bit of tube flavor and still have a lot of power output without spending a fortune. Once you get north of about 60 watts per channel with tubes it starts getting spendy and very heavy.
 
The easiest part of those questions to answer are those about a SS integrated. If one were to purchase a brand new SS integrated amp, the odds are that it will work without need of any maintenance for 15-20 years, possibly longer.

But you haven't stated if you are looking for new or used. Or recent year used vs vintage.

As to cost, well, that can range from $200 to $100,000. You might get better advice if you have a specific price range in mind.
Hi Tom, no offense, but the last SS integrated amp i bought, from that warehouse discount place, was a AV unit, for home theatre and that lasted less than 5 years. I don't believe that was an exception and checking other peoples experriences with the same unit, a Harmon K brand, showed nothing unusual with that.
 
I was thinking of good quality, current SS integrated amps. HK, especially the lower priced units, are not what they used to be. I had stuff like upper-end NAD, Parasound, Ayre, Bryston, Arcam, Peachtree, etc., in mind. The lower priced Yamahas tend to be pretty good. I'm not a budget-oriented person and I tend to overlook all of that gear and the OP didn't write that they were on a limited budget.
 
Thanks for the comments and on it......as far as price I'm thinking 1-2k......I listen mostly to classic rock and 50's -70's jazz....such as Bill evans, coltrane, max roach, thelonius monk....fusion from the early 70's on too.....as far as the classic rock....a.c./dc to Leon Russell.....very wide spectrum.....I have smaller listening spaces so I don't need a power house.....the proton D1200 I have now is great but I could easily get by with less power....

If there are integrated tube amps with decent phone stages then I would have no problem going that way....I prefer separates but that can come later.....I want a tube set up because of the reviews ice read over the years and since my proton is getting on in age now is a good time to get into a decent tube amp.....I've looked at the cayin at-50 and some of the jolida integrateds but I wouldn't be opposed to a restored Scott or equally reputable amp or integrated
 
Correct me if am off target but I think the Alon 1s are in need of a good bit of power being in the region of ~87dB efficiency - or are you thinking of powering different speakers with tubes?. So, that would be something to verify first to be sure you understand the power needed.
 
Correct me if am off target but I think the Alon 1s are in need of a good bit of power being in the region of ~87dB efficiency - or are you thinking of powering different speakers with tubes?. So, that would be something to verify first to be sure you understand the power needed.
I know the Alon mkII's are 87db.......so how much tube wattage would be needed to drive these Alons ?
 
Tom,

Do you know of anyone personally, or on the forum who had had any experience with these amps? I see needle doctor is a vendor for rogue audio....
A quick search of the forum using "rogue audio" will get you lots of results and AKer input.
 
Ok great...thanks.....I want to try to get a feel for how jolida tube amps compare as well as a brand.....there seem to be a few tube amps that are right in the $2500 (+,-) range which is where I want to be....my tt and cart was about 3k earlier this spring so I think spending roughly the same on an integrated with a phone stage is in keeping the components fairly matched....I would prefer to keep my system as separates but buying a amp,pre, & phone pre separately might not keep me within my budget or quality level....

Thanks again for the input guys.....

Scott
 
Correct me if am off target but I think the Alon 1s are in need of a good bit of power being in the region of ~87dB efficiency - or are you thinking of powering different speakers with tubes?. So, that would be something to verify first to be sure you understand the power needed.
I've been reading a lot of reviews on tube amps and integrated tube amps.....I have noticed some folks stating that they are pushing low efficiency speakers...like mangepan 1.6's and other 88db and below speakers with 30 watt tube amps and I'm wondering what is the lowest tube wattage I could go with to power my Alons nicely.....I do not crank my music as I own a condo with neighbors......I don't need to kill it with volume.......
 
Thanks for the comments and on it......as far as price I'm thinking 1-2k......I listen mostly to classic rock and 50's -70's jazz....such as Bill evans, coltrane, max roach, thelonius monk....fusion from the early 70's on too.....as far as the classic rock....a.c./dc to Leon Russell.....very wide spectrum.....I have smaller listening spaces so I don't need a power house.....the proton D1200 I have now is great but I could easily get by with less power...

.I've looked at the cayin at-50 and some of the jolida integrateds but I wouldn't be opposed to a restored Scott or equally reputable amp or integrated

http://www.tubes4hifi.com/

It seems you're a vinyl man so tubes would be the best match. As mentioned already I would keep the Yamaha C-2 and use a tube amp. If you're budget is about $1-2K and you don't want to get into repair and restoration issues why not go with one of the VTA amps. The best bang for the buck on the audio market today!!!

This will give you the peace of mind of having a new amp without any issues as well as a WIDE!!! range of tube types you can use in these babies. They are build VERY well and Bob Latino sells these with good quality parts. Not starter parts!!!

I've had a few Jolida integrated amps over the years and never cared for them. I can't put my finger on it but "weedy" would be my best word. And I was always wondering when this thing was going to blow??? I never tried the Cayin.

I'm sure the engineers on the group could add the numbers behind why tubes and SS differ. My simple minded description is "it makes the music sound more real". I enjoy SS pieces. One of my favorite SS pieces is my Marantz 250M fully restored and upgraded. My least used piece that sits in the closet is, or are, my NAD amps. My all time favorite is the simple vintage Sherwood S-5000 all tube integrated. It just sounds like music.
 
I'm getting excellent results with an Oldchen K3 paired with Aurum Cantus F620 speakers. I'm not using the standard tube complement.... Or volume pot, coupling + input caps for that matter.
 
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/

It seems you're a vinyl man so tubes would be the best match. As mentioned already I would keep the Yamaha C-2 and use a tube amp. If you're budget is about $1-2K and you don't want to get into repair and restoration issues why not go with one of the VTA amps. The best bang for the buck on the audio market today!!!

This will give you the peace of mind of having a new amp without any issues as well as a WIDE!!! range of tube types you can use in these babies. They are build VERY well and Bob Latino sells these with good quality parts. Not starter parts!!!

I've had a few Jolida integrated amps over the years and never cared for them. I can't put my finger on it but "weedy" would be my best word. And I was always wondering when this thing was going to blow??? I never tried the Cayin.

I'm sure the engineers on the group could add the numbers behind why tubes and SS differ. My simple minded description is "it makes the music sound more real". I enjoy SS pieces. One of my favorite SS pieces is my Marantz 250M fully restored and upgraded. My least used piece that sits in the closet is, or are, my NAD amps. My all time favorite is the simple vintage Sherwood S-5000 all tube integrated. It just sounds like music.
So you have made me think about possibly using my Yamaha cx-2 SS preamp with a tube amp......this is appealing to me as I can stay with separates, get more amp for my money, and give me time to save for a higher performance tube preamp than the cronus magnum provides....
On the other hand, are there synergistic or comparability issues that can occur when matching SS & Tube components ? From what I've gathered, I should be ok with a 60 wpc tube amp. This increases the number of amps I can look at as I first believed that if need a min of 100 Pac..to drive my Alon model1 speakers.....does anyone have any positive or negative experience matching an SS preamp with a tube amplifier ? The Yamaha has a very neutral phono stage.....I like it immensely....if that quality can carry over to a tube amp is be happy
 
Using a SS pre-amp with a tube power amp could be a viable option and would allow you to focus on a higher powered tube amp. With any amp & pre-amp you do need to consider synergy - same also with the speakers; they might play well together but you will not really know how well until you try them.

On the flip side, much of the tone, warmth, character or whatever attributed to tubes is introduced in the small signal tubes in pre-amp stages and this is often where you can play with different tube manufacturers & tube types (tube rolling) to experience their perceived different effects on the music output.
 
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