Speakerlab S7WA's in Germany

[Bratwurst7s]

OK. I've owned a pair of 3rd generation Speakerlab S7's (ribbon tweeter 6.5" mid) since early 1983.
www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/speakerlab-s7s-rebuild.545406/

I've been a Speakerlab fan since the mid '70s and grew up in the PNW/Puget Sound area. For many years I've wanted to be able to listen to a pair of 2nd generation S7's, the S7WA to be exact. Just how do those horns compare with the ribbon & cone tweeter/mid of my 7's? In what way does the higher 1000hz bass/mid crossover point effect the sound compared to the 350hz x-point in my 7's? At my present age of 60 years I'd given up hope that I would ever be able to find out the answer to those questions.

I've been living in Munich Germany for almost 20 years now. What do you figure the chances are that I would find a pair of S7WA's here in Germany 37 years after the last one was produced? A few weeks ago I found out that the chances looked better than I thought.

A pair of WA's came up on ebay. When I first saw them I didn't even realize that they were here in Germany. And was astounded when I was able to buy them, in fact the only bidder. I agreed to pay a good bit extra on the shipping costs with the promise from the seller to package them very securely. You gotta know where this is going. (down hill) But first a photo from the seller, my first glimpse of these beasts...



From the look of the cabs I thought that they had the cheaper "Clearseal" vinyl finish cabs.

Shortly after finishing the deal I came across this post here at AK...
http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....dred-pounds-of-pure-eighties-attitude.774893/

heh heh, what are the chances that 2 of us AKers would come across a pair of these at the same time, separated by 8500km? Way cool.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

So the boxes arrived this last Wednesday, so 2 days ago. It's taken that long to tamp down my anger to be able to post about them. I had been hoping that I would be able to trust a professional carpenter to know how to pack a 41kilo / 90lb speaker for shipping. When I first saw the "cartons" the worry factor started, after seeing a damaged lower corner of the packing. On the other hand when I opened the first box my heart jumped because I could immediately see that rather than vinyl finish the cabs were oak veneer that someone had painted black! Cool!!

Unfortunately it didn't take long to see that the seller had fashioned a package out of strips and pieces of cardboard and used stupid simple pieces of bubble wrap, cardboard and paper packs for stuffing. Both cabs are damaged. Crushed corners upper and lower. I am so freaking angry. What could have been a relatively straightforward and simple restoration has just become a long term project. One cab took enough of a hit on the lower front left corner that a woofer came loose. That W1208R has a radial and an axial split in the surround. So in addition to the cabs I have to replace the surround.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

 

[Bratwurst7s]

OK. Moving past that I'm determined that I will do a full restoration on these speakers. It will just take some more time and will be more expensive than I had hoped. But one thing is for sure. NOT buying these speakers was not an option. It just wasn't. I couldn't pass up what was most likely the only chance left in my lifetime to listen to a pair of S7WA's. The funny thing is that in the end I probably won't keep them, I just don't have the room for both these and my ribbon 7's. So they will be going to my son eventually. Keeps them in the family.



Since the one W1208 had fallen out I took the first look inside the cabs. First off, there are nice air core coils on all of the drivers. The original crossovers on my ribbon 7's had iron core coils on the woofers. And wtf, the cab stuffing has been put in 4 plastic bags. For the life of me I can't see the advantage of that. Wouldn't that have the effect of making the cabs smaller rather than effectively damping them?

Not shown in these pics there are 2 side to side braces (one between and 1 above the woofers) and one front-back brace that I can see.

So. I will be consulting with my carpenter friend concerning restoring the cabs. And of course I'll be contacting Paul at The Loudspeaker Store for surrounds for the W1208's. All of the drivers will be removed, cleaned and checked. The electrolytic caps will be replaced. L-pad switched will be Deoxit'ed. I will measure the cabs and the bracing and make sketches and post them. That's the plan moving forward.

And this weekend I'll be experimentally be taking the one (mostly) intact speaker and putting ot in the right channel of my system and comparing it in mono with a ribbon 7 on the left channel, just for an initial evaluation.

Cheers,
James

 

[doctorolds]

Oh crap, another botched packing job. I would contact the seller and see what he is willing to refund you, it should be a good amount in my opinion. If he is not willing to give you what you think is fair then I would contact ePay and file a claim. Look this link over, good luck and I am sorry the purchase is not what it should be. Good luck.

http://www.ebay.com/gds/My-order-showed-up-broken-now-what-do-I-do-/10000000017847575/g.html

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Thanks Dr. I'll be doing that. But I purposely waited a day because it's not always good to start off writing under the first full hammer rush of anger.

James

 

[spkrdtr]

Save the coils and switches and replace everything else. I provided you with a schematic that does not show the switches.

 

[Ckafoweeth]

I have a set of Gen 1 S7's and a pair of Gen 1 Super Sevens that I am restoring right now. The crossovers both had air core inductors, but the circuit looks fairly different. I would be really interested to see what Speakerlab did differently with the WA7 crossover.

 

[nclh77]

Love the look of your Cantons.

 

[doctorolds]

Thanks Dr. I'll be doing that. But I purposely waited a day because it's not always good to start off writing under the first full hammer rush of anger.

James

I believe that post says to contact the shipping company first, so just start with that. You are protected, but it still stinks that they arrived damaged.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Save the coils and switches and replace everything else. I provided you with a schematic that does not show the switches.

Rodger that. I figure on Mox resistors, Mundorf elcos and Jantzen film. Probably use film for the tweeters and upper end of the mids. I used ALL Jantzen MKP film caps in my ribbon 7's but that got pretty expensive. And the spring clip external connectors will go, replaced with some good binding posts. I'll be using the schematic that you sent me as the basic reference for it all and will post how the switches fit in.

This project will take some time because of limited resources. Realisticly, a year total won't be out of the question.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I have a set of Gen 1 S7's and a pair of Gen 1 Super Sevens that I am restoring right now. The crossovers both had air core inductors, but the circuit looks fairly different. I would be really interested to see what Speakerlab did differently with the WA7 crossover.

I will work on documenting the complete speaker. Inside measurements, bracing size and placement, driver positioning, grill frames, crossovers etc. The object will be to document the speaker well enough that someone could diy a new one if they have the drivers. Basicly the same thing that I tried to do in my ribbon 7 thread that I linked to in the first post of this thread. This will take some time so please be patient.

Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Love the look of your Cantons.

Thanks! Karat 60's. Some fine sounding speakers. It's almost a shame that I'm only using them in my home theatre system, because they sound fantastic with music, but I have that covered with my ribbon S7's in the 2-channel system.

Cheers,
James

 

[nexus]

as to the rolled up damping material...

it seems many kit builders just took the packaged stuffing material and placed it or left it in the cab thinking this is what was intended. years ago i spoke with a S7 owner who had assembled the kit himself and said he just assumed it was supposed to be that way.

and you are right about effectively reducing cabinet volume with it rolled up and bagged that way!

 

[Bratwurst7s]

as to the rolled up damping material...
it seems many kit builders just took the packaged stuffing material and placed it or left it in the cab thinking this is what was intended. years ago i spoke with a S7 owner who had assembled the kit himself and said he just assumed it was supposed to be that way.
and you are right about effectively reducing cabinet volume with it rolled up and bagged that way!

2 things lead me to believe that these were/are kits assembled by the owner.

1) The drivers aren't installed with RTV as was Speakerlab's SOP but rather with a hard light brown glue or epoxy. This sucks as it's going to make removing the drivers much more difficult. I don't believe that any shipping impact would have dislodged a woofer installed with RTV. The danger is spalling and damage to the baffle face when removing the drivers, as well as getting the glue removed from the driver mounting surfaces. When the W1208 fell out it took a small amount of wood with it and the baffle mounting surface will have to be repaired/filled in.

2) Those rolls of stuffing. I think that you are exactly right as to why the stuffing is "still in the bag". The instructions for assembling my 7's showed spreading the stuffing around in the cab or rolling it and putting it into the cab that way. In any case, the Dacron stuffing will be getting removed and replaced with fibreglass batts. I really like what doing that did for my ribbon S7's.



Cheers,
James

 

[Drugolf]

Outstanding and congrats James from the PNW!
SO I just looked at a map. You are in Munich. Where did the speakers come from?

 

[Bratwurst7s]

Outstanding and congrats James from the PNW!
SO I just looked at a map. You are in Munich. Where did the speakers come from?

They were from a small town a bit SE of Frankfurt.

Cheers,
James

edit: There were a lot of USAF types stationed at Rein-Mein AB (Frankfurt) before the base was closed in the great post-cold war drawdown. And they had C-130's there, at least they did in the '80s when I saw them. And we had a C-130 squadron at McChord AFB where I was stationed. So I'm loosely speculating that that could have been a possible path for the speakers to get here. Someone stationed at McChord buys them (perhaps at the Bridgeport Way store where I bought my S7's)(which was just down the street from the main gate of the base) and then gets a change of station to the C-130 squadron at Rein-Mein.

 

[Bratwurst7s]

OK, I finally had a little time to do some exploring. First I had to wash the outside of the cabs to try to get rid of some of the cellar musty smell.

Then I pulled out the 4 rolls of stuffing from the open cab. This is kind of sad really. Someone bought some potentially superb speakers and then went to a lot of trouble to make sure that they would not sound as they should. The stuffing isn't in bags but rather the sections were rolled in plastic sheets that were then rolled and sealed with a bead of epoxy lengthwise and folded and taped shut on the ends!

The rolls were made the full height of the cabinet, so with 4 of them it would seem that cabinet volume was reduced to perhaps 1/2 of what it should be. That had to have played hell with the planned bass response. Also, I was expecting to see Dacron fill but actually the rolls are fibreglass.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

I poked my camera into the 12" hole and snapped a few shots of the inside of the cabinet. They are double braced front to back and side to side, with a full length brace along the sides.



Cheers,
James

 

[Bratwurst7s]

More...

One of the mid waveguides is cracked and will need to be repaired or replaced. And all of the drivers are installed with epoxy rather than rtv. That's going to make removing them a real pita.



Cheers,
James