Speakers Around $1500 / Alternatives to the KEF LS50

In the post preceding yours, he specifically said the violins do not sound harsh or strident. I guess you can color me puzzled as well?

Thanks, Runnin'. Correct, I specifically said the LS50s do not sound harsh on violins. I think I was clear in my comments about the LS50s and violins. While live violins can be bright, it's seldom that I perceive them as harsh or strident or as unnatural as they sometimes sound on the KEFs.

And about the Pioneers, please note that I said "in some respects," I prefer them to the LS50. Specifically, it is the upper registers of the violins that I'm referring to. They just sound more natural to me. Perhaps this is because the Pioneers are not as detailed or transparent as the LS50s. But if you think I implied that the Pioneers are better speakers overall, please re-read my comments.

I do have the Hillary Hahn Partitas, but I have not had a chance to listen yet. I'm guessing I'll prefer them on the Harbeths. Or the Pioneers! :)
-Bob
 
I just heard the latest ATC SCM11s with a Rockna Wavedream DAC and Line Magnetic 211 tubed amplification. The SCMs are VERY well-priced at retail locally, at $1750 for the SCM11 and 1100 for the SCM7s/pr new with full local warranty. That puts it squarely in the price territory of the LS50s, with the similarly-sized SCM7s being much cheaper and the substantially-larger SCM11s being a tad more expensive.

The SCM11s were amazing. They don't disperse treble as broadly as the LS50s, so toe-in is needed, but bass dynamics and tightness were on another planet. Midrange was stunningly transparent; detailed without the slight strain and hardness apparent in the LS50. The decay of cymbals were to die for. ATC's new in-house tweeter design is a clear step up. Harmonics and overtones were a bit muted in the high treble but I suspect toe-in will significantly help that. Midrange dynamics seemed slightly compressed with the tubes. Good SS is probably preferable, despite the ATCs being much easier to drive in this generation. All in all, a great buy. Imaging depth, width was quite a bit inferior to the LS50s coaxial arrangement though. The coherence of sonic images, the delineation of each instrument/voice and the resolution of directional cues was definitely lesser than the LS50s by quite a margin. A tradeoff in terms of priorities here.
 
I'm a little puzzled when people talk about this 'harsh sound' of violins from speakers.
Don't they actually sound sorta harsh in reality?

That's why I flee violin buskers in subway stations. They trigger my tinnitus.

It's also why I can only listen to classical violin at very low levels - and my system is tweaked to minimize harshness.
 
I just heard the latest ATC SCM11s with a Rockna Wavedream DAC and Line Magnetic 211 tubed amplification. The SCMs are VERY well-priced at retail locally, at $1750 for the SCM11 and 1100 for the SCM7s/pr new with full local warranty. That puts it squarely in the price territory of the LS50s, with the similarly-sized SCM7s being much cheaper and the substantially-larger SCM11s being a tad more expensive.

The SCM11s were amazing. They don't disperse treble as broadly as the LS50s, so toe-in is needed, but bass dynamics and tightness were on another planet. Midrange was stunningly transparent; detailed without the slight strain and hardness apparent in the LS50. The decay of cymbals were to die for. ATC's new in-house tweeter design is a clear step up. Harmonics and overtones were a bit muted in the high treble but I suspect toe-in will significantly help that. Midrange dynamics seemed slightly compressed with the tubes. Good SS is probably preferable, despite the ATCs being much easier to drive in this generation. All in all, a great buy. Imaging depth, width was quite a bit inferior to the LS50s coaxial arrangement though. The coherence of sonic images, the delineation of each instrument/voice and the resolution of directional cues was definitely lesser than the LS50s by quite a margin. A tradeoff in terms of priorities here.

ATCs with a good sub is a proposition worth looking into.
 
Hi Art,
I appreciate the virtues of my LS50s, but listening almost exclusively to classical music, I just can't get past the way they treat the upper registers of violins. I don't think they sound harsh or strident, but they have a thin, unsubstantial quality that gives them what I can only describe as a mechanical, unnatural sound. I love their superb transparency, though.

My Compact 7s do a much better job at portraying the sounds of unamplified instruments (including the upper violin registers), but they can't quite match the LS50s' transparency. While I listen to the LS50s occasionally, it's always something of a relief when I put the C7s back in my system. (To tell you the truth, in some respects, I prefer my Pioneer SP-BS-22LRs to the LS50s!)
-Bob

I listen to live violin 50-100 times a year and never hear them as bright or strident. I am pretty sensitive to that. We are on a similar page with that.

I have to wonder a bit about your placement with the LS50's. Late last night I listened to my LS50's with violin, sounded great to me. They ain't my C7's on the business end of a Sonneteer amp and LM source but with my Brio-R and Lux CD player they sound excellent.
 
Hi Guys,
I am trying to find some standmount speakers to replace my Epos Epic 2s. I have been auditioning the Kef LS50s in my home for the past month. Despite flipping interconnects and speaker wire, I don't seem to love them quite yet. I love the soundstage and instrument separation, and I totally get why everyone loves them, but in my system, they sound a touch forward in the high mids and a bit inorganic. Tonality is really the most important thing for me and it's a bit of a bummer as I was REALLY hoping to love them.

I remember loving the Dynaudio X12s when I heard them years ago, so I checked out the X14s at a local shop, but that was a bust. The dealer and I agreed Dynaudio sorta missed the mark with this model. They sound a bit cold and lack coherence across the spectrum.

I also checked out the Spendor s3/5r2, which I thought had good tonality, but sounded maybe a bit boxy.

I went to another shop, which had terrible a listening setup, so all observations to be taken with a grain of salt. Here I heard the Nola Boxer IIs, which sounded lovely, but seemed a bit burly in the low mids. I'd be wary of blindly pairing them with my Marantz gear. (NYC dealers really don't offer an "at home auditioning period. Ugh…)

I also checked out the Focal Aria 906s, which I had high hopes for. They were nice, but seemed to be a bit overemphasized in the very top end of the treble- a bit too airy. This gave the Focals a very mid-to-rear hall presentation that didn't really do a whole lot for me.

So, I am tempted to just go and buy the Dynaudio X12s used somewhere, but I can't help but wonder if there is more recent stuff that might tump them within my price range. How do the X12s compare to more recent standmounts?

I am also considering the Epos Elan 10 or 15, since I have been using the Epic 2s in my system for a while, but I do not know how they would compare to recent options or the X12s. (It's been so long since I've heard the X12s).

Also, for what it's worth, I am starting to get the impression I might be partial to soft dome tweeters. It is really just a tonal thing (or completely psychosomatic).

Any suggestions or feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and Happy New Year to you all!

I see you live in Brooklyn . I am using OHM WALSH 2000 speakers made in
good old Brooklyn. I live in Manhattan if you would like to hear mine you are
welcome .PM me and we can talk
 
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@Dissonant - where are you seeing the SCM7s for 1100? In the U.S.? That's a very good price.

Not in the US. I live in Asia. In Singapore to be precise. We get fantastic pricing on the big Japanese brands like Denon and Marantz. The new ATCs are selling VERY cheaply locally. 1100 is full retail with full local warranty. Makes the Harbeth P3ESR look like a terrible value in comparison. The SCM11 is out of my budget whilst the SCM7 is too small for my needs. Sad.
 
Think twice next time. You never know what you might miss.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/violinist-joshua-bell-turns-train-station-concert-hall-encourage-arts-education/

BTW, that new album of Bach compositions he released is great.

I remember seeing that clip a while ago. Love it.

Reminds of when Michael Schumacher, arguably the best F1 driver ever, showed up at a race track somewhere in the US. You could pay for the privilege of taking a race car (I believe it was NASCAR type) around the track a few times. It appears nobody recognized him and he had to wait in line and pay like everybody else. Apparently a few people's jaw dropped when the tall guy with the funny accent hit track.
 
So I guess that means no Hilary Hahn- Bach Partita No. 3 in E Major, BWV 1006: I. Preludio on the LS50's for you huh? :D

Well, I did get a chance to listen to that last night on both the LS50s and the Pioneers. I know it sounds crazy, but I preferred the Pioneers. The LS50s gave just a hint of the impression that the violin was made of metal, while on the Pioneers, it sounded more like God's own wood. I'm not implying the KEFs are bad speakers or that the Pioneers are better overall, just reporting what I heard on that recording and, often, on other violin recordings.

-Bob
 
I have to wonder a bit about your placement with the LS50's. Late last night I listened to my LS50's with violin, sounded great to me. They ain't my C7's on the business end of a Sonneteer amp and LM source but with my Brio-R and Lux CD player they sound excellent.

Hi Art,
I've tried them in a wide variety of positions and even in different rooms, and that thin, somewhat cold, metallic cast to violins follows them wherever they go. I am by no means disparaging the KEFs overall sound. The violin thing I hear is minor, but it's something I just can't seem to shake. I do like the speakers very much.
-Bob
 
And I suppose it can also be said that the LS50 are not the perfect speaker. They're only $1500 after all.
 
You will need a little bit of power to push those 6 ohm and 84.5 db efficient.

yeah, I got POWER! Class D Audio SDS-400C 140W RMS per channel into 8ohm, 280W per channel at 4ohm, more than enough to move a mountain?:D
 
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What is your pre/amp combo - synergy is always important here.

That said, not everyone likes the LS50's.

Arcam A85 integrated. I think I'm in the Alan Shaw (Harbeth) camp in that I'm a bit of a skeptic about the whole synergy thing. I've never heard electronics (or cables) make a difference that couldn't be absolutely dwarfed by repositioning the speakers even a little bit. And, as I said, I DO like the LS50s!
-Bob
 
Hi Art,
I've tried them in a wide variety of positions and even in different rooms, and that thin, somewhat cold, metallic cast to violins follows them wherever they go. I am by no means disparaging the KEFs overall sound. The violin thing I hear is minor, but it's something I just can't seem to shake. I do like the speakers very much.
-Bob

I can definitely say that the Sierra-2 has no metallic cast or harshness at any volume. These speakers are really without any weakness at all. It does have a larger driver to go with the new Raal ribbon and crossover so it's a different animal than the Sierra-1, though they share the same excellent cabinet.
 
I can definitely say that the Sierra-2 has no metallic cast or harshness at any volume. These speakers are really without any weakness at all. It does have a larger driver to go with the new Raal ribbon and crossover so it's a different animal than the Sierra-1, though they share the same excellent cabinet.

Seriously, I like how the Sierra look, but the price with added ribbon tweeter and extrata 0.5inch woofer is indeed quite high, also I have some concern on the rear bass port and how forgive the placement could be? Sometime, when I have limited space in my room, I'm force to move my Wharfedale Denton near to the wall, but the twin rear port seem not much effect on the bass, somehow resonance is not an issue for me. I wonder how Sierra handle that?
 
Seriously, I like how the Sierra look, but the price with added ribbon tweeter and extrata 0.5inch woofer is indeed quite high, also I have some concern on the rear bass port and how forgive the placement could be? Sometime, when I have limited space in my room, I'm force to move my Wharfedale Denton near to the wall, but the twin rear port seem not much effect on the bass, somehow resonance is not an issue for me. I wonder how Sierra handle that?

Ascend has designed the speaker to be placed easily, and even have some custom plugs if they are to be right on a wall or in a bookshelf. Mine are about 15 inches off the back wall on stands. No issues with that. They just sound so right, I don't usually gush. They aren't cheap, though.
 
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