Specs for streamers and streaming services?

[HiFiThor]

I am not sure I am really getting what I will be paying for. I would like the highest possible sound quality to pump through my system. I am considering Sonus or Bose Soundtouch Link as the hardware and either Tidal or Deezer as the provider.

I have an Essence HDACC DAC which has inputs for optical, coax, HDMI and line level inputs. It is supposed to up the sample rate and bit depth. I use the balanced outputs to feed my preamp.

Although I hear that these services are "high quality" I don't see any real specifications on all that technical mumbo-jumbo where you could put them side by side for comparison. I have tried google and gone to the websites for the hardware and services but I can't find anything except "trust us, we are providing the highest quality..."

Of course I will use the optical or coax outputs from the hardware. Can anyone show me in definitive terms just how good this equipment/services is?

 

[chicks]

Bose is well known for highly colored sound. I wouldn't go anywhere near them. Sonos is well known for accuracy of sound. They support Deezer Elite and Tidal's CD quality streams. You can't do better than that, no matter what the "High Rez" marketeering tries to sell you.

 

[uofmtiger]

I haven't heard of any streamers that are wifi/ethernet based that down rez the signal from the streaming service unless the service uses a "hi rez" format outside the streamer's capabilities to play it. Typically the max resolution these streamers can handle is somewhere on the company's website.

The actual streaming services will tell you their max resolution, as well.

 

[HiFiThor]

I haven't heard of any streamers that are wifi/ethernet based that down rez the signal from the streaming service unless the service uses a "hi rez" format outside the streamer's capabilities to play it. Typically the max resolution these streamers can handle is somewhere on the company's website.

The actual streaming services will tell you their max resolution, as well.

Yeah, I thought they would list it on the Bose and Deezer websites and if it is there I can't find it. My DAC may tell the tale though. It reads the input stream via optic from the Bose SoundTouch streamer as 44.1Khz which if I understand correctly is about as close to CD quality as you can get. I guess if you want higher resolution you have to get a streamer/DAC that supports the higher resolution files. The sites that have that resolution don't seem to have much of a variety of music to choose from. Although "good" I've never heard of them and don't really want to pay for something I might only listen to once or twice. I guess the industry will get it figured out eventually.

 

[uofmtiger]

Yeah, I thought they would list it on the Bose and Deezer websites and if it is there I can't find it. My DAC may tell the tale though. It reads the input stream via optic from the Bose SoundTouch streamer as 44.1Khz which if I understand correctly is about as close to CD quality as you can get. I guess if you want higher resolution you have to get a streamer/DAC that supports the higher resolution files. The sites that have that resolution don't seem to have much of a variety of music to choose from. Although "good" I've never heard of them and don't really want to pay for something I might only listen to once or twice. I guess the industry will get it figured out eventually.

Most lossy files kick out 44.1khz, so that it is not an indication of whether the file is lossy or not. As you said, the Bose doesn't explicitly say what it does with streaming files, but it seems to handle FLAC and ALAC files off of a NAS, so I would be surpised if it was down rezzing (CD quality or less) files from the music streaming services.

I have heard of some streaming services that would down rez the stream if they could not get a clean signal to the player, in the past, but I am not sure if anyone is still doing that at this point.

 

[HiFiThor]

Most lossy files kick out 44.1khz, so that it is not an indication of whether the file is lossy or not. As you said, the Bose doesn't explicitly say what it does with streaming files, but it seems to handle FLAC and ALAC files off of a NAS, so I would be surpised if it was down rezzing (CD quality or less) files from the music streaming services.

I have heard of some streaming services that would down rez the stream if they could not get a clean signal to the player, in the past, but I am not sure if anyone is still doing that at this point.

I guess I must be missing something here. I thought that the standard default native output of a CD player was sampling at 44.1Khz, "CD" quality. So if my Bose SoundTouch streamer shows an output of 44.1Khz I'm assuming that I am getting CD quality stuff UNLESS it has something to do with the quality of the stream of bits from the media provider, i.e. Deezer or Tidal. It just makes me crazy.

 

[uofmtiger]

I guess I must be missing something here. I thought that the standard default native output of a CD player was sampling at 44.1Khz, "CD" quality. So if my Bose SoundTouch streamer shows an output of 44.1Khz I'm assuming that I am getting CD quality stuff UNLESS it has something to do with the quality of the stream of bits from the media provider, i.e. Deezer or Tidal. It just makes me crazy.

Most mp3 files are 44.1. The encoders allow you to set the sampling rate and 44.1 is typical.

 

[+48V]

I'll chime in. Two parameters are involved when gauging your quest.

Sample rate in kHz (kilohertz) & bit rate in kbps (kilobits per second). Mainstream (NPI) services offer 3 fundamental levels. Lossy, then CD quality (lossless), and then Hi-Res. "Resolution/Quality" is affected by both the sample rate and the bit rate. The 3 "SQ" levels are:
1. Lossy-- 44.1 kHz sample rate and will vary between 96 and 320 kbps bit rate. <--(Spotify/Apple/Amazon/Google/Tidal/Deezer)
2. CD quality-- 44.1 kHz and (when streamed) will vary; typically between 700 and 1411 kbps <--(Tidal/Deezer)
3. Hi-Res-- anything above a 44.1 kHz (typically 96/176/192 kHz) sample rate ,-- Tidal Masters via MQA*

So say, when you play a CD in your player you're getting 44.1 kHz at 1411 kbps. When this same quality is streamed, the services use a lossless compression encoding format like FLAC or ALAC. This saves them/you bandwidth; yet upon decompression at the player you receive "CD quality".

The only service presently that I'm aware of that offers Hi-Res (above 44.1 kHz) is Tidal via the MQA codec. But the library selections in this realm are limited as well as listening options. You can get up to 96 kHz on certain songs via their app and most any sound card. You can also receive up to a 192 kHz sample rate (provided the song has been encoded such) with a DAC that has MQA firmware.

I have heard of some streaming services that would down rez the stream if they could not get a clean signal to the player, in the past, but I am not sure if anyone is still doing that at this point.

I'm pretty sure no one is currently down sampling their stream. 44.1 kHz fits just fine through practically any pipe and is universally compatible with all players. However, ALL services do presently implement adaptive bit rate streaming in order to facilitate a seamless experience for the user. Most have both a manual and auto quality setting. Auto will adapt to the current bandwidth available and will switch on the fly anywhere from 48 to 320 kbps. You can manually fix it to a specified rate...but you may experience buffering if you wander off into the boonies.

 

[HiFiThor]

I'll chime in. Two parameters are involved when gauging your quest.

Sample rate in kHz (kilohertz) & bit rate in kbps (kilobits per second). Mainstream (NPI) services offer 3 fundamental levels. Lossy, then CD quality (lossless), and then Hi-Res. "Resolution/Quality" is affected by both the sample rate and the bit rate. The 3 "SQ" levels are:
1. Lossy-- 44.1 kHz sample rate and will vary between 96 and 320 kbps bit rate. <--(Spotify/Apple/Amazon/Google/Tidal/Deezer)
2. CD quality-- 44.1 kHz and (when streamed) will vary; typically between 700 and 1411 kbps <--(Tidal/Deezer)
3. Hi-Res-- anything above a 44.1 kHz (typically 96/176/192 kHz) sample rate ,-- Tidal Masters via MQA*

So say, when you play a CD in your player you're getting 44.1 kHz at 1411 kbps. When this same quality is streamed, the services use a lossless compression encoding format like FLAC or ALAC. This saves them/you bandwidth; yet upon decompression at the player you receive "CD quality".

The only service presently that I'm aware of that offers Hi-Res (above 44.1 kHz) is Tidal via the MQA codec. But the library selections in this realm are limited as well as listening options. You can get up to 96 kHz on certain songs via their app and most any sound card. You can also receive up to a 192 kHz sample rate (provided the song has been encoded such) with a DAC that has MQA firmware.

I'm pretty sure no one is currently down sampling their stream. 44.1 kHz fits just fine through practically any pipe and is universally compatible with all players. However, ALL services do presently implement adaptive bit rate streaming in order to facilitate a seamless experience for the user. Most have both a manual and auto quality setting. Auto will adapt to the current bandwidth available and will switch on the fly anywhere from 48 to 320 kbps. You can manually fix it to a specified rate...but you may experience buffering if you wander off into the boonies.

+48: Thanks for the explanation, I better understand it now. Does anyone know or have a link to the technical stuff concerning the quality of Deezer? I don't see it on their website and I would like to know beyond them saying "Trust us, you are getting high quality stuff, better than Amazon, Pandora, etc."

I am trying to remember why "+48" is significant to me. I seem to remember it (obviously a power supply output or source voltage) from my Navy ET days back in the day.

 

[chicks]

Telcos have 48V batteries in COs to keep your phone working when the electricity goes out. Dunno if that's his gig.

Deezer Elite is FLAC encoded, CD quality. Only available on Sonos. 5Mbps minimum internet connection required.

https://support.deezer.com/hc/en-gb/articles/115002473945-Deezer-Elite

Tidal claims "better than CD quality" via MQA. Huge grains of salt required to take their claims seriously, The MQA marketing push has been rather quiet of late.

 

[E-Stat]

The only service presently that I'm aware of that offers Hi-Res (above 44.1 kHz) is Tidal via the MQA codec.

Qobuz offers 24 bit high rez in Europe, but is presently not available here.

It's just a matter of time before you'll find greater availability since bandwidth continues to get less expensive.

 

[+48V]

Qobuz offers 24 bit high rez in Europe, but is presently not available here.

It's just a matter of time before you'll find greater availability since bandwidth continues to get less expensive.

Yeah. I forgot about Qobuz. Outa sight... slipped my domesticated mind.

Time will tell indeed but bandwidth ain't the turd in the pipe as far as availability in the US. It's the cost of music licensing for the US market. That'll cost em beaucoup d'argent.

 

[+48V]

I am trying to remember why "+48" is significant to me. I seem to remember it (obviously a power supply output or source voltage) from my Navy ET days back in the day.

Telcos have 48V batteries in COs to keep your phone working when the electricity goes out. Dunno if that's his gig.

Since inquiring minds want to know, when I signed up I swiped my user name from a broadcast console that happened to be in front of me at the moment. Relates to the phantom power mic switch