Spending money on my JBL L200's. New foam grilles, and new diaphragms.

[Alobar]

As some of you may know, I have owned these since new, clear back to 1974. They did spend 30 of their 43 years at my brothers house, but they are with me now till the bitter end. For the most part they sound pretty darn good, although opinions of what constitutes a great sounding speaker is all over the map so I will stick with "pretty darn good". These are still for the most part, getting it done for me enjoyment wise.

There has been an issue that I have been struggling with, that occurs on one of them. I have come to the conclusion it is the LE85 driver and after pulling it apart last time for inspection, I slightly dented the diaphragm due to a brain fart. I had a bronze driver but the powerful magnet pulled one of the screws that got away from my hand into it .. Anyway, having nothing to replace the diaphragm with I put it back together and hoped for the best. To my relief I didn't seem to make things worse but the original issue is still there..

Anyway as to that issue. It has a distortion at what I think is a certain frequency or perhaps a certain combination of frequencies that comes up in certain tracks. Loggins and Messina Pathway to Glory, well there are many others too. It is just enough to bug me, usually for brief moments but it hasn't been enough to do anything about it, till now.

I have ordered new diaphragms for the LE85's. Can't buy the originals from JBL, and their recommended replacements are too rich for my blood, but I have heard good things about Radian's replacement diaphragms. So I ordered a set and plan on just doing them both at once so the sound will match for one, and for the other, well I just think that at 43 years they might just both need a rest!

The new Radian's have, instead of a metal surround, a Mylar one. They claim these can be installed "in the field". Does this mean I can just install it and go or do I need to do the frequency sweeps and tighten the screws based on the sound? I am considering trying to find non magnetic stainless screws to replace the steel screws so that a repeat performance of what happened the last time doesn't happen again.

Another question is the dampening foam in these drivers and what to use for replacements. When I pulled the cap off the the one, it was not turning to crumbs yet, but was sticky to the touch and when compressed would not spring back. I didn't have a replacement so I did a bit of a hack job, I replaced the base of the foam with a thin layer of felt, and glued on a open cell sponge rubber sponge to it. This is the type that is used to wipe up excess grout from a tile job. Does anyone have any other suggestions on this? I still have not received the diaphragms yet. They were $88 a piece plus shipping. Not terribly expensive, but I would hate to have to go back in later as those 20+ pound woofers are a SOB to pull out!
Any input and or advice is much appreciated!

 

[Tom Brennan]

The Radian diaphragms are great and according to an old horny buddy and retired WE sound engineer have superior measured performance to the original diaphragms. I had a pair of 2420s (pro LE-85s, same driver) with the Radians "bumped in" using sweeps and another pair that I just put the Radians in and I heard no difference. I think that in any event simply installing without sweeps is at least satisfactory, even if not ideal.

 

[Alobar]

Thanks Tom, I am glad you chimed in as I know you have a fair bit of experience in these..
Reading their PDF it said this replacement is self aligning. I was wondering if that meant no frequency sweep process needed. It kinda sounds that way. I was thinking the Mylar has some give to it so may be just install and go. Hopefully there will be instructions for these..

"The suspension utilizes a Mylar ® sur-
round, rather than a metal one-piece
dome and surround, which enhances the
replacement diaphragm’s reliability and
eliminates fatigue stresses that destroy
other compression driver diaphragms.
The Mylar ® surround also provides good
dampening of the voice coil/diaphragm
assembly for smooth, low-distortion, linear
output with excellent transient response.
To ensure longer diaphragm life, our
high temperature voice coil former and
advanced adhesives permit each replace-
ment diaphragm to sustain high RMS and
peak power levels, equivalent or better
than the original.
If necessary, the diaphragm/voice coil
assembly may be rapidly replaced in the
field. The self-aligning diaphragm
assembly assures simple installation and
accurate alignment with the same polarity
as the original."

 

[Finjima]

I forget what Thread it was But I do recall you talking about the L200's being at your brothers and you hoped to get them back. You have pics to show us what shape they survived in? I imagine bear claw marks and beer can rings on top and maybe half a salmon stuffed into the cabs

 

[Alobar]

I forget what Thread it was But I do recall you talking about the L200's being at your brothers and you hoped to get them back. You have pics to show us what shape they survived in? I imagine bear claw marks and beer can rings on top and maybe half a salmon stuffed into the cabs

Nothing like that. Actually they were in about exactly the same shape they were when they arrived there in around 85. He put them up on this balcony ledge with a ladder and there they sat for the next 30 years. Only thing that happened was about 10 years ago both foam grilles just disintegrated into a pile within a year. I think he may have played a few tunes, maybe some Christmas music, but that's it. When I got there to get them we looked up at them 8 feet in the air and decided that we were both too old for that chit so I rented one of those crank up lifts and we got them down that way. Amazing what 30 years does to your abilities to carry 130 pound speakers down a ladder!

Here are a few pictures..
First were after loaded into the back seat of my Chev ext cab (had to remove the back seat). 1300 mile round trip, across the north country but they were well worth it.


The 077 tweeters were added after I got them back..

 

[Finjima]

who needs grills when you can have nudes like that!

 

[GD70]

Nothing like that. Actually they were in about exactly the same shape they were when they arrived there in around 85. He put them up on this balcony ledge with a ladder and there they sat for the next 30 years. Only thing that happened was about 10 years ago both foam grilles just disintegrated into a pile within a year. I think he may have played a few tunes, maybe some Christmas music, but that's it. When I got there to get them we looked up at them 8 feet in the air and decided that we were both too old for that chit so I rented one of those crank up lifts and we got them down that way. Amazing what 30 years does to your abilities to carry 130 pound speakers down a ladder!

Here are a few pictures..
First were after loaded into the back seat of my Chev ext cab (had to remove the back seat). 1300 mile round trip, across the north country but they were well worth it.
View attachment 951984

The 077 tweeters were added after I got them back..
View attachment 951985

Dream speakers for many! You must be thrilled to finally have them back!
Happy listening!

 

[elitopus]

You can buy stainless or brass screws at Home Depot or a similar store. I get them there for my Altec drivers all the time.

Btw, nice speakers

 

[hjames]

Love the travel pictures! Even tho mine are now gone, thinking of transporting monster JBLs brings a smile ...
(and I had a Honda CRV, a small SUV) Behind the seats in a crew cab is ... amazing!

 

[Drugolf]

Did you steer with your chin or what?

 

[Alobar]

who needs grills when you can have nudes like that!

When I had them back in the 70's I always had the grilles off but now I am worried that our very playful dog will run into them. I kept the screens on but they don't look that great with bug screen. That and the woofers have faded a lot. They used to be nearly black! I am hoping the foam grilles I ordered will look as good as the originals as I like the look.. I even found new badges for them!
From Google:

Dream speakers for many! You must be thrilled to finally have them back!
Happy listening!

I had been listening to my L65's since 85 actually but they had gone through hell from times when I was sharing rent and always working away from home. At one point I lost a woofer in one, played that way for years, then bought a few cheap ones in the late 90's but never was happy with them. Tried getting some JBL126's or 128H1 replacements from ebay but it was always a stumbling block getting them here to Alaska, so when my brother asked me when I wanted my speakers back I went in that direction. Took me nearly 2 years to figure out how to get them here but I am very satisfied now..

You can buy stainless or brass screws at Home Depot or a similar store. I get them there for my Altec drivers all the time.



Btw, nice speakers

Thanks!
I didn't think about brass. Trying to remember if they were 10-32 or 8-32 screws. We don't have any Home Depot here but am going to Juneau in a week so may pop in there and get a variety. If anyone knows what size those screws are that hold the diaphragm in place on a LE85 let me know!

Love the travel pictures! Even tho mine are now gone, thinking of transporting monster JBLs brings a smile ...
(and I had a Honda CRV, a small SUV) Behind the seats in a crew cab is ... amazing!

I have done my share of moving these heavies around! When I first bought them, they came from the store in Anchorage to Fairbanks AK in the belly of a 737 and there must not have been much in the way of airport security in 1974 because they opened a gate and I drove up to the plane and they pulled them out of the hold and right into my p/u! I got used to carrying them and could even in a pinch lift them and move short distances myself.. In fact I had to do that getting them into the house here, except this time I was 60 years old, not my 20's! My back wasn't happy to see those return...

Did you steer with your chin or what?

Well no but being 6'-2" I always drive with the seat all the way back, but that wasn't possible and 650 miles was a long time to sit with leg cramps! I just fiddled with the cruise control the whole way so I wouldn't have to hold my foot on the gas peddle..

 

[WaynerN]

Alobar, these speakers are as you say 43 years old. Have you ever gone into the cross-overs? As you know the X-over points are very low for these speakers and changes in cap values certainly can happen over that time period. I have a pair of AR-4X speakers in which the cap value measured 36mfd rather then the 20mfd that it was suppose to be. This meant that the cross-over frequency dropped even farther down, which is bad for a HF or mid driver.

Certainly the distortions you heard may be from the dent in the diaphragm, but it could be a bad cap is letting the driver go even farther down (even to its resonance frequency).

Wayner

 

[Alobar]

Alobar, these speakers are as you say 43 years old. Have you ever gone into the cross-overs? As you know the X-over points are very low for these speakers and changes in cap values certainly can happen over that time period

I built new crossovers for these earlier last winter when first trying to nail down this particular sound I was hearing. I was going to just recap the existing LX16A crossover but after opening up the metal can saw all the glue like substance all over everything and thought better of it. So I left the old xovers in their place and built new LX16A's mounted to plywood and mounted that under the speaker within the base on the outside of the cab. That way I can get to them easily which has come in handy. I used all new components including air core inductors. It changed the sound very slightly but am quite happy with the results. The original distortion is still there, mostly unnoticed except for a few tracks here and there.
I have been corresponding to another AK member who has the same model L200's I have. He also bought his new in the 70's and immediately had 077 tweeters installed with N8000 crossovers. He is now figuring out all about biamping his, something I have been thinking about doing someday as well.

Right now I have my 077's installed separate from the LX16 crossover, using a 1uf cap and 8 ohm Lpad. This tends to pick up where the LE85 rolls off. Nelson Pass did a very similar thing when he redesigned the crossovers on his L300's. This arrangement I have with my 077's might not work with the new Radian diaphragms if they have improved hi frequency. Maybe I wont need the 077's but as they are, they do make a subtle but appreciable difference.

Certainly the distortions you heard may be from the dent in the diaphragm, but it could be a bad cap is letting the driver go even farther down (even to its resonance frequency).

The distortion was there before I broke the red wax seals on the LE85 so it wasn't from the dent. I was at the time more concerned about the foam in the caps having been deteriorating and having crumbs stuck in the diaphragm. Also if the foam was gone I was thinking maybe I was hearing "ringing". I also wanted to see if I could see any cracks in the dome which I didn't. Now that the dent is there, it seems like a good time to just change them out.

 

[Alobar]

As an update to this thread I finally got my new foam grilles yesterday (they went on the wrong barge to Glacier Bay) and installed one of the Radian diaphragms today. Did a frequency sweep from 1khz to 10khz without any issue.. Sounds very good, actually very close to the original which is still in the other speaker. Very pleased with them!
The original grilles were blue so I thought I'd change it up a bit with brown. I really like it with the walnut wood, and the badges have a gold coloring and really are fitting with the brown. I bought those badges off eBay. I had forgotten how nice these speakers looked with the foam and these are very close to the originals.. Gluing the foam was easy, I just used hot glue and it stuck very well..
The Radian on top with Mylar surround and the original under with a couple small dents which didn't seem to effect sound but felt it necessary to swap at this point. The other Radian will go in tomorrow on the other speaker.

 

[turnitdown]

I have always admired those cabinets. I'd like to build a pair. Do you think, in your freshening up process, that you could measure the depth of the top? I have all the other dimensions. Thanks in advance.

 

[Alobar]

Sure, its 16.5" from the back outside edge to the inside of the face frame. (see picture)

 

[KLH9]

somewhere (on film) I have a pic of the pair I owned in the way back years.

I don't recall mine having the sides open like yours but mine may have been older.

I too had the blue grills.

Rock on!!!!

.

 

[Alobar]

somewhere (on film) I have a pic of the pair I owned in the way back years.

I don't recall mine having the sides open like yours but mine may have been older.

I too had the blue grills.

Rock on!!!!

.

I think they all had the side grill due to the recessed baffle board it was needed for dispersion..

 

[KLH9]

I think they all had the side grill due to the recessed baffle board it was needed for dispersion..

That is a possibility. I sold mine back in the early 70's to get a pair of LST's (ARs) so my recollection of them is not perfect. I owned them for less than a year.

 

[toddalin]

As an update to this thread I finally got my new foam grilles yesterday (they went on the wrong barge to Glacier Bay) and installed one of the Radian diaphragms today. Did a frequency sweep from 1khz to 10khz without any issue.. Sounds very good, actually very close to the original which is still in the other speaker. Very pleased with them!
The original grilles were blue so I thought I'd change it up a bit with brown. I really like it with the walnut wood, and the badges have a gold coloring and really are fitting with the brown. I bought those badges off eBay. I had forgotten how nice these speakers looked with the foam and these are very close to the originals.. Gluing the foam was easy, I just used hot glue and it stuck very well..
The Radian on top with Mylar surround and the original under with a couple small dents which didn't seem to effect sound but felt it necessary to swap at this point. The other Radian will go in tomorrow on the other speaker.
View attachment 966400View attachment 966401

Your dents are far worse than those I made from the horseshoe clip in a 2421 diaphragm, which are barely visible.

Too bad. An original diaphragm like that in perfect shape can now command >$300 to the right buyer. I got a perfect one for $65 (a steal!) when the seller didn't know what it was and had it listed incorrectly because it was in a 2425 box. Obviously someone replaced a pair and kept the good one in the replacement's box. Gotta know what you are looking at.