Spot the VTA quiz!

[Punk_oldie]

So, a little bit of fun for a Sunday, I decided to see how good fellow AKers are at spotting differences in VTA (and of course test the theory that there are differences!!!). What I've done is take three clips from three different songs, each one including a very 'tail down' clip, a 'balanced' clip and a very 'tail up' clip. All you have to do is guess which is which

The kit I've used is a Project 6-Perspex with the 9cc Evo arm, and a Soundsmith Othello cartridge, aligned to Baerwald:

The clips are recorded as 48k 24 bit WAV, so reasonably good quality I hope.

And for illustration here's the 'tail down' VTA:

The level VTA:

And the 'tail up' VTA:

Just so you can see there is very real VTA differences between each clip.

OK, so the first three:
A1 - http://song.space/3qauja
A2 - http://song.space/3hqy5y
A3 - http://song.space/3c5geu

The second set of three:
B1 - http://song.space/3lf6v7
B2 - http://song.space/3glhvk
B3 - http://song.space/3mcs6c

And the third set:
C1 - http://song.space/3ta63y
C2 - http://song.space/3kk8fp
C3 - http://song.space/3f9ggz

I'll let you know which is which in a little while.

 

[Punk_oldie]

And just in case the links don't work for you, here they are in Dropbox:

Set 1:
A1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/mlx7o8p9x8ifogl/Elgar_1.wav?dl=0
A2 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ytofx32ggy6njv3/Elgar_2.wav?dl=0
A3 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksrowi6eq9fre4f/Elgar_3.wav?dl=0

Set 2:
B1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/f9xzepewitrhryi/Floyd_1.wav?dl=0
B2 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8pk56fv74yq0vkj/Floyd_2.wav?dl=0
B3 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/hznbwfyc0b01qqv/Floyd_3.wav?dl=0

Set 3:
C1 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nfw5u46gat86w3/Blondie_1.wav?dl=0
C2 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/1hp4b107zl98v1b/Blondie_2.wav?dl=0
C3 - https://www.dropbox.com/s/nvibcf1qyeqqhyl/Blondie_3.wav?dl=0

 

[tubewade]

B1 - tail down. B2 - tail up. B3 - level. This is a "shot in the dark, of course. All are very close on the homely system I am listening thru.

Thanks for the new links. I tried the others before and they didn't work.

 

[ic-racer]

Your records are cleaner than mine.

 

[Punk_oldie]

Your records are cleaner than mine.

I do have a very fastidious cleaning regime, but I've found that surface noise is also affected by stylus profile and cartridge alignment

 

[cafe latte]

How much tail down and how much up ie how many mm up and down from level?

 

[Punk_oldie]

How much tail down and how much up ie how many mm up and down from level?

Approximately 1cm either way. It did surprise me how much adjustment I had to make in order to get the noticeable differences you can see in the pics.

 

[cafe latte]

Approximately 1cm either way. It did surprise me how much adjustment I had to make in order to get the noticeable differences you can see in the pics.

Always been my point with all of this 1mm or two is pointless also three or four.
Chris

 

[Punk_oldie]

Always been my point with all of this 1mm or two is pointless also three or four.
Chris

Yeah I suppose that was the other reason for doing this, just to see if people really could tell any difference, but it seems apart from tubewade no-one appears to be interested. I wonder why.............

 

[dcmfan]

Yeah I suppose that was the other reason for doing this, just to see if people really could tell any difference, but it seems apart from tubewade no-one appears to be interested. I wonder why.............

Give it some time!

 

[33.3/LP]

I remember having a 9cc Evo arm I always thought that centerline was useful (or maybe not ) Also had one of those line thingies, plus a laser level.

Now I use a VPI "FatBoy" I do wish it had a marked center line ....... Interesting post.

 

[Ken Boyd]

Using my laptop kind of difficult to hear much difference.
But just so you don't feel left out. I think I heard some slight differences and if I had to guess I would say I liked the second recording of the three in the first group. The third one of the second group, and the second one of the last group.

And even with your cleaning system I heard plenty of surface noise on my lap top speakers. Sorry. )-:

 

[Mark 1234]

Couldn't tell much on cheap phone speaker but thought 2 slightly better than 3 on 3rd group.

 

[marcmorin]

agreed that B3 sounded the best out of those examples. Not at all familiar with the other material.

 

[dcmfan]

For group A my votes are:
Wav1 = Parallel
Wav2 = Tail Up
Wav3 = Tail Down

For group B my votes are:

Wav1 = Tail Up
Wav2 = Tail Down
Wav3 = Parallel

And for group C:
Wav1 = Parallel
Wav2 = Tail Down
Wav3 = Tail Up

 

[Audiobro]

Not sure what the point is. Are you attempting to dispel the idea that VTA/SRA are important to have adjusted properly? By making huge adjustments of 1cm increments, you won't be able to tell a thing. Personally, I make my adjustments by .003 inch increments, and that's only when I have to. And as I recall, my Ozzy albums seem to play best in the middle range, where most records of that thickness sound good.

 

[cafe latte]

Not sure what the point is. Are you attempting to dispel the idea that VTA/SRA are important to have adjusted properly? By making huge adjustments of 1cm increments, you won't be able to tell a thing. Personally, I make my adjustments by .003 inch increments, and that's only when I have to. And as I recall, my Ozzy albums seem to play best in the middle range, where most records of that thickness sound good.

I think the OP point is if we cant hear 1cm difference then we are not going to hear 1mm. Interesting experiment IMO..
Chris

 

[Audiobro]

I think the OP point is if we cant hear 1cm difference then we are not going to hear 1mm. Interesting experiment IMO..
Chris

OK, in that case I can hear the difference in 1/5 of a mm difference. But, this is subjective and applies to my TT and my cart and listening in real time, not a digital sample. The OP's cart/setup may be more forgiving on SRA/VTA setting than mine. I have read many threads and articles discussing this topic, I could draw no conclusion based on what I read. That's when I decided to conduct my own experiments and found that, in my world, it makes a huge difference.

 

[marcmorin]

OK, in that case I can hear the difference in 1/5 of a mm difference. But, this is subjective and applies to my TT and my cart and listening in real time, not a digital sample. The OP's cart/setup may be more forgiving on SRA/VTA setting than mine. I have read many threads and articles discussing this topic, I could draw no conclusion based on what I read. That's when I decided to conduct my own experiments and found that, in my world, it makes a huge difference.

yep, and it's why I only commented on sample B, as i'm familiar with what it sounds like to begin with. I don't have a "mental sample" of the other cuts to make any conclusions of placement, separation, or a host of other cues that i could attribute to SRA/VTA, tracking weight, antiskate, etc.

 

[slate1]

OK, in that case I can hear the difference in 1/5 of a mm difference. But, this is subjective and applies to my TT and my cart and listening in real time, not a digital sample. The OP's cart/setup may be more forgiving on SRA/VTA setting than mine. I have read many threads and articles discussing this topic, I could draw no conclusion based on what I read. That's when I decided to conduct my own experiments and found that, in my world, it makes a huge difference.

I'm not trying to be contrary.... but seriously, you can hear a difference in 0.00787402" (0.2mm) change in vta??? With a Ortofon 2M Blue? Again, not trying to be confrontational, it's a serious question.