Stacking Pre on Top of Amp - Bad Idea?

B

BentWookie

New Member
I just recently picked up a minty fresh pair consisting of an Onkyo Integra M-504 and P-304 pre. I've seen a lot of promotional photos and pictures of similar rigs where the pre is sitting squarely on top of the amp--is this a bad idea?

I've been running the setup like this for a few days now and while it definitely gets a bit warm it's nothing alarming--maybe 110F tops. There is about 3/4" clearance between the top of the amp and the bottom of the pre.

Bonus round:

I've got a set of RtR 280DR's I'll be powering once they get out of the shop. They're bi-ampable, but from what I understand bi-amping is of little benefit unless it's done with two separate amps. The guy I bought the amp from though told me that I'd get better sound by running left channels A & B to left and so on for the right, thus giving the crossover a break resulting in better sound--is this sound logic? Also, being a 165 WPC amp, does that mean it will halve the power per channel when both A & B speaker channels are used? i.e. 82 WPC x four rather than 165 x two?

Super-excited to hear them sing with the Integra, they really rocked with my Wintec R-1120 (120 WPC, similar dual-mono design), and that thing, though a fantastic receiver, doesn't hold a candle to the clarity and power of the Onk.

Sorry for the newbish questions, I'm not really all the technically informed (duh, right?) when it comes to HiFi, I just love music and well-engineered things:smoke:

Thanks in advance, guys.
 
I would LOVE a set of Integras like that.

If the power amp isn't melting down constantly underneath the preamp, I don't think it's too huge an issue, especially if the room gets some sort of air circulation.

I have a Yamaha preamp that runs in class A that I can't stack anything on, but it's less well ventilated than the average power amp, and I don't think the M504 sticks around in class A for too long.
 
However, bear in mind that if you stack equipment, the component you want to change out will always be at the bottom. :D
 
While it looks better the way the pictures show it and the way you have it, being from the old school, and somewhat anal, I've always believed in putting the component that generates the most heat on the top of the stack.
 
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When I got mine and posted a picture of my score I got grief from people about how I had it stacked !! But it looks so cool stacked like this . And I really had no other choice . The tuner on top weighed almost as much as the amp ! I loved that set up and I miss it so much . A family crisis forced me to sell it on Barter Town . :tears:
You lucky , lucky dog ! :thmbsp: I never had a problem with mine stscked like that , I don't think you will either .
Rudy .
 
Partly it's about heat management, and partly it's about seismic stability. The Amp is usually the heaviest piece, so it makes sense to put it on the bottom. The Pre-amp is usually light and the one piece that gets the most human interaction, so it often goes on top within easy reach.

OK, those arguments are about stability and ergonomics. But, what kills all electronic gear is heat and corrosion. The corrosion is taken care of with humidity management and de-oxit. But the heat cycles are only taken care of by managing the heat loading and transfer.

Coupling caps often go first, so why bake them in a rising heat column? Output transistors change characteristics with heat. I'd get them all up on one shelf side by side so they could breath independently and transfer as little heat as possible. But, if that's not possible, then try other ways.
 
Cap life goes down by what, half for every 10 degrees? There's also the hum issue. You may not notice obvious hum, but I've never seen a preamp that maintained its specifications on top of an amp. At least get a good 6" of space between those components!
 
For my spaces where I have to stack, I always put the Amp or Receiver on top, so that it can properly dissipate heat. The alternative to this is to build a little "lifter" shelf with four feet and a solid top that can allow the amp to be at the bottom, but provide approximately 2" of clearance between the amp and the next component. I have some walnut and was going to make two of those this summer to provide me with more stacking options. This would probably be the better option with a heavy unit, if, as others have said, side by side placement is not possible...
 
Hockey pucks for a bit more air space between components with heat issues...works for me.


J.R.
 
For me it depends on the actual pieces involved. I have no problem with the Yamaha C-4 being on top of the Epicure M1 in my bedroom system at the moment as the M1 has huge heat sinks that are way out the back by themselves and it runs incredibly cool even then. The C-4 I would not put anything on as it actually gets warmer than my tube pre does!
 
It might look cool but your components arn't going to be cool and over the long run the heat is going to take its toll and you'll be paying the price. Check out the local thrift store for even cheap racks to tide you over till you find something decent to place your gear on, make sure any rack has sufficent space between shelves to adequatly ventilate the equipment. If you don't believe me check the owners manual from the mfg of your amp, preamp, tuner etc.
 
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