UncleBingo
Super Member
Did you add 1 gram to the tracking force to compensate for the brush?
mccalljd
Well-Known Member
Is the brush removable on the Pickering? It looks like it should be. Do they make the Pickering with the Shibata?
mccalljd
Well-Known Member
Yes, I did. Still skated in on me even at my highest bias setting.
Grenadeslio
Lunatic Member
But I already have the OEM stylus and XV15 1200E cartridge so my only interest is for future replacement, when that day comes maybe the correct nude profile will be available. I like having a backup but my OEM XV15 625E and stylus will have to do if necessary lol.
UncleBingo
Super Member
Strange...
mccalljd
Well-Known Member
Is that the D2000Q?
The aftermarket brushes need to be manually broken in with your fingers to work well. I usually mash them down for about 5 minutes at a time, and do it for about a week once daily. You can also try linseed oil as if you were breaking in a paint brush. I have the brush on my xv-15 with the Pfanstiehl 4822-DEE,and it's super quiet. I do have 4 original brushes for the Pickering versions, and use 1 on my 881S MKII with the XSV-3000 shibata.
I also like the Pickering versions slightly better than the Stanton versions. I thought I was the only one who thought they were slightly different,until I saw others say the same.
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
No, not as long as the necessary 1g of tracking force is added. But that's more than I can say for the M97xE. The Dynamic Stabilizer brush on mine was over-damped or binding and wouldn't allow the stylus to catch a groove until it had skated a couple of inches into the playing surface.
The problem with the M97xE, other than the rather lazy tonal signature, is the quality control on the maquiladora-made styli. They're beset with problems straight from the plant, everything from defective brushes to misaligned cantilevers to off-axis or off-azimuth diamond placement. Frankly, Shure's statement (which I'm sure they made; why wouldn't they?) that they only ever made one cartridge that was superior to the M97xE is laughable. The V15VxMR is indeed arguably the best cartridge Shure ever made (and the M97xE is it's lineal descendant) but to say that the M97xE is better than the V15-IV or even the Era IV M97HE among others isn't going to hold up to any degree of scrutiny. By the way, channel separation for the M97xE and the V15VxMR is 25dB so, if that's your hot button issue...... (rant off)
Since you've both fallen in love with your Triple-E and gotten used to it, your best bet is to get one of the better aftermarket styli or look for a NOS D6800-EEE stylus online. They're rare but they do show up occasionally. You could look as well for a Pickering D1200E, the equivalent stylus from the other side of the shop.
John
Last edited:
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
No, the D750 is a 0.3 x 0.7 mil bonded elliptical and the D1200 is a 0.2 x 0.7 mil nude elliptical.
[EDIT] I totally missed the word JICO in Grenadeslio's post. My bad. Since JiCO only offer 0.3 x 0.7 mil ellipticals and only bonded styli, what he says above is probably true. The originals are very slightly different from one another in compliance so the JICOs may also differ in that regard.
John
Last edited:
The D1200,and the EEE are the same with the D1800 (Jico's own shibata), and the EEE-S stereohedron would be the top of the line for the 681/XV-15.
I also don't see the Pickering version available on the site anymore either.
mccalljd
Well-Known Member
Here's the only thing I could come up with. https://www.jico-stylus.com/product...ucts_id=788&osCsid=3k76f1eopha0vr9e38bda7ahl4
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
That should be the replacement for the D2000-Q (608-DQ) for the UV-15 cartridge, a moving magnet design as opposed to moving iron. It'll fit and sorta work (the magnet in the stylus will act like the iron lump in a MI stylus) but I think a system involving two magnets would produce some uncontrolled eddy currents so it ain't the best route to take.
John
If not mentioned, It's twin, Pickering XV-15-1200
Grenadeslio
Lunatic Member
Only in the last twenty or so posts lol.
I figured, Sorry bout that! I use that, Had to speak up!
How are you determining that there is insufficient anti-skate? I never found it a problem, but I always just set it up according to directions (that is, anti-skate setting 1 "gram" higher than the net tracking force) and didn't worry about it. This proved to work well (by that I mean there were no problems during play and that my local dealer's microscopic inspection showed even wear when he checked the stylus) with a wide variety of Stanton and Pickering cartridges and set up on turntables from BIC, Garrard, Philips, and Thorens. When I bought the Linn, I usually followed their advice with respect to cleaning devices and removed the brush.
Wow! If I'd had that much trouble with Shure products I'd be sour on them, too. In my case, since buying my first M97xE 10 years ago, I've had just two M97xE cartridge bodies and, I think, 6 N97xE styli. Small sample set, but none has had any problems for me whatsoever.
I love the frequency balance of the M97xE. Below is a cut-and-paste from an older thread, but I still love what I hear from my Shure.
J. Gordon Holt, in his 1985 article "Down with Flat," expressed the opinion that speakers that measure flat in the high end sound bright or tilted up, and he found that a 4 dB slope from 2 kHz to 10 kHz, then extending flat beyond that, made things sound more natural (which he accomplished with two resistors and a capacitor per channel between the preamp and power amp). Oppositely, at the low end, speakers that measured flat sounded thin to him, and it took a low-end rise to actually sound flat.
Looking at Werner Ogiers measurements on the M97xE at TNT Audio, we see that this cartridge, at its standard loading recommendations, is pretty flat between 500 Hz and 2 kHz, but shows a 3 dB droop between 2 kHz and 6 kHz (extending flat past that point to about 16 kHz before dropping away) and also has a mild boost below 500 Hz of about 2 dB. Not an exact match, but pretty similar to what JGH found sounded more natural to him.
I happen to find the M97xE a very natural-sounding transducer. It's easy to relax with the music because the presentation seems more real to me, with instruments sounding more like what I hear live, than with other cartridges I've used (its great tracking, warp-handling, and lack of congestion/compression on musical peaks doesn't hurt, either). Maybe its mild deviations from flat are a help in this regard.
One quote I found in their customer database was "A nice upgrade from the V15IV without spending too much is the M97xE cartridge." At least for me, it is a claim not subject to any scrutiny whatsoever. The V15 IV hasn't been sold since the 1980's and Shure ran out of styli for it in the late 1990's. There is, therefore, no possibility that I can compare the two, but it is easy for me to accept that the manufacturer knows their own product.
Good points. I've been very happy with the M97xE in both an LP12/Ittok and in my current Rega RP3. It was not my favorite in a Well Tempered Record Player, where I preferred a Grado Platinum, or a Denon DP-300F, where I preferred the Sumiko Black Pearl. As to other options, Grado might be a possibility. There was a poster in another forum about 15 years ago who could no longer find styli for his Pickering XSV 5000, and he found the Grado Silver to offer similar sound and be roughly comparable quality-wise (with, of course, some variation in particular strengths and weaknesses). I know that of all the brands I've tried, Grado has offered the best stereo effect I've heard (good separation, depth, and localization of instruments with no wandering). Even the lowly Grado Green excelled at this, particularly in its Audio by Van Alstine Longhorn version, the Longhorn helping greatly with tracking stability when I've used an undamped arm (no Longhorn needed in the damped arm of the Well Tempered).
Vinylmasters
Super Member
I agree with most everything said, but but it should be noted there are some incredible stlyi available for the Shure M97xE (the LP Gear Vivid Line is still an incredible deal for that cart that brings it to an entirely different level). I'm kind of 'new' to the Stanton and Pickerings, as I've mainly used AT's as my 'go to' for years, but that Shure with the vivid line really compared well to them. The biggest problem have found is the Stanton/Pickering aftermarket styli just don't perform as well as the original, so there's some disappointment there (even with the Shibata's) from what I have read anyway. One note on Shure brushes: they work VERY well (and even though the aftermarket brushes are bot as good, they still perform very well on the Shure's.
Last edited:
guitarlvr
Super Member
Nope mine works fine at 1.5 since the time I installed.
mccalljd
Well-Known Member
I have an acrylic mat with a smooth surface. By setting the tonearm down while the platter is rotating, you can determine whether your anti-skate is set correctly. With the brush in place (and with the additional 1 gram added to the tracking force) the arm still skates inward even if my bias is set to its highest level (3). When I take the brush off and reset the tracking force to compensate for the lack of brush, I can set the bias for the same number as the tracking force and my tone arm will stay wherever I set it on the acrylic mat. This was all done using the original Stanton brush with the new stylus.
