Stanton 681EEE New Cartridge Equivalents

[vwestlife]

The Rivertone styli you can sometimes find on eBay are pretty good, although currently they only have a D6800EL equivalent, not any of the fancier ones.

 

[mccalljd]

The original D1200 is a nude .2 x .7 elliptical

The original D750 is a nude .3 x .7 elliptical

The original D625 is a bonded .3 x .7 elliptical

The Jico D625, D750 and D1200 are all bonded .3 x .7 elliptical.

So, the Jico D1200 is actually most like the original D625.

The original D1200 is very special. The original D750 is very, very close. The original D625 is still a top flite performer and consistently evaluated to be the best value of the Pickering Hi Fi moving iron line. In other words, all perform extremely well.

The Jico D1200 I have that I purchased directly from the Jico website is an exceptional performer. I do think that it is very close to the original D1200, but is nonetheless not quite as transparent. Still excellent and worth having and enjoying? Absolutely. Original D1200s only come about once every other blue moon anymore.

I take it, then, that the Jico D1200 is going to sound noticeably better than the Russell elliptical I purchased for my 681EEE>

 

[eriathomas]

The Jico D1200 does look like a good option. I wonder how the D6800E, D6800EE, D6800EEE are, and why they are all listed as ellipticals are different price points.

 

[Grenadeslio]

The original D1200 is a nude .2 x .7 elliptical

The original D750 is a nude .3 x .7 elliptical

The original D625 is a bonded .3 x .7 elliptical

The Jico D625, D750 and D1200 are all bonded .3 x .7 elliptical.

So, the Jico D1200 is actually most like the original D625.

The original D1200 is very special. The original D750 is very, very close. The original D625 is still a top flite performer and consistently evaluated to be the best value of the Pickering Hi Fi moving iron line. In other words, all perform extremely well.

The Jico D1200 I have that I purchased directly from the Jico website is an exceptional performer. I do think that it is very close to the original D1200, but is nonetheless not quite as transparent. Still excellent and worth having and enjoying? Absolutely. Original D1200s only come about once every other blue moon anymore.

Happen to have both the 1200 & 625 OEM cartridges and stylus, there is considerable difference. I would imagine the Jico wouldn't be an improvement over the OEM 625 so I see no point in the replacement.

 

[eriathomas]

That is an interesting observation. No idea when they price the three Pickering offerings the same.

Probably based on the extra "E" like the original styli, but I doubt the three JICOs are anything but .3x.7 bonded. Going to try out the EVG tonight, but the cantilever looks crooked like all the other aftermarkets I've gotten so far. I can never seem to align it to the cantilever.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Definitely not if you’ve already got a D625. But if you’ve got nothing else...

There really isn’t anything like a D1200. Even the Stereohedron tips aren’t as transparent and smooth. The D1200 is very hard to beat, period—by any cartridge in my opinion.

It definitely takes a back seat to my Grace cartridges, at least on my Grace arm anyway lol.

Although my Thorens is very happy with the Pickerings.

 

[eriathomas]

Well the EVG Stanton 680ee is junk, just like the EVG XV-15 stylus. Both have cantilevers that are really far off center and even aligned to the cantilever I get sibilance and distortion. Time to return and try a JICO or give up on the cartridge.

 

[Grenadeslio]

The Grace is even harder to source a stylus.

Yes they are lol, but more worth the effort I must say.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Yes, you must. In a Stanton thread. That's called thread crapping.

Not at all, first I was referring to Pickering, second I also stated my Thorens was loving the XV15 1200E/1200D installed, if that's somehow bashing Stanton carts I'm not seeing it.

The Grace carts/stylus have better synergy with my Grace arm so are more worth my effort. They're also a good bit more expensive than the Pickerings I was referring too so again when I do find what I want, again more worth the effort.

If I'm looking for a VDH Grasshopper and make a score then that's even more worth the effort than either of the above. No disrespect was meant, only misinterpreted.

The OP was also looking for recommendations on different cartridges, albeit new, but still not seeing where I've thread crapped. Personally I think I was contributing to the thread and hope the OP sees it that way also.

 

[mccalljd]

Maybe yes, maybe no. The XV-15/1200 and the Grace F-9E are two very different sounding cartridges. It's a matter of taste which one someone will prefer as well as synergy dependent. My personal tastes prefer the XV-15/1200 over the Grace F-9E for a few reasons, but the F-9E is a tremendous cartridge; no one needs me to say so.

But what progressed in your contributions was a series of put downs against the Stanton and Pickering cartridges and not suggestions of similar-sounding new cartridges. This is where I felt you went into the realm of thread crapping.

The only similar sounding new cartridge to a Stanton 681EEE that I've ever truly come across is probably not one that the OP would be interested in, but I'll mention it anyway. The moving coil Audio-Technica F3/III that I have on my Technics SL-1200 sounds just like a Stanton 681EEE on the same turntable. It also, interestingly, has the same dimension tip: nude .2 x .7 elliptical.

Cartridges that are not new, but have a similar though not exactly the same sound include just about any Empire cartridge, but especially the 2000Z. Really nice styli for those, original and aftermarket, are plentiful and inexpensive. The Empire 2000Z can usually be had on the used market for about $100, and sometimes including a good original stylus. Really, though, these sound a bit more like the Pickering XV-15 than the Stanton 680/681.

For brand-spanking new, I actually thought that the Shure M35X had a remarkably Stantonesque sound, but it is a conical tip, not elliptical or even hyperelliptical.

I've never considered a moving coil cartridge because of the low output issue, but more importantly to someone like me who doesn't have lots of disposable cash to use, I don't see the value of spending money on a cartridge that the stylus can't be replaced on. Seems like a waste to have to pitch the cartridge because the stylus wears out. Can these be re-tipped? If so, I imagine it isn't a whole lot cheaper to re-tip than replace the cartridge. I think I will try the Jico D1200 stylus since you feel it is superior to a lot of the others (and at a reasonable price, too). I will likely stick with my Stanton cartridge, since with all the small tweaks I have done on the turntable it is sounding quite detailed on many of the records I own. Still, it's nice to know what to look for if it ever gives up on me. I have been disappointed on how it sounds on some vinyl, but I suspect that has more to do with how the original recording was mastered when all the tracks were recorded and mixed, than it does with how well the cartridge is performing.

 

[boreas]

I've never considered a moving coil cartridge because of the low output issue, but more importantly to someone like me who doesn't have lots of disposable cash to use, I don't see the value of spending money on a cartridge that the stylus can't be replaced on. Seems like a waste to have to pitch the cartridge because the stylus wears out. Can these be re-tipped?

Yes, they can be retipped. There are three companies that I know of which offer the service. But it ain't cheap.

Also, not all moving coil cartridges are low output. Many have sufficient output to be used in a conventional moving magnet phono stage. The output is lower than that of a typical moving magnet cartridge, needing a little more gain or a little more volume, but they work just fine in an MM preamp.

I think I will try the Jico D1200 stylus since you feel it is superior to a lot of the others (and at a reasonable price, too). I will likely stick with my Stanton cartridge, since with all the small tweaks I have done on the turntable it is sounding quite detailed on many of the records I own. Still, it's nice to know what to look for if it ever gives up on me. I have been disappointed on how it sounds on some vinyl, but I suspect that has more to do with how the original recording was mastered when all the tracks were recorded and mixed, than it does with how well the cartridge is performing.

The JICO D1200 is a good choice, probable the best option short of a NOS D1200 or D6800-EEE.

Cartridge performance doesn't degrade over time. They either work as originally intended or they just stop working, dropping one or both channels. I have a lot of cartridges. The youngest is probably 35 years old and the oldest is more than 50 years old. As I keep telling myself, age doesn't matter. If you're disappointed by what you hear on some recordings, it's probably, as you suspect, the recording itself or the condition of your stylus.

John

 

[Grenadeslio]

Maybe yes, maybe no. The XV-15/1200 and the Grace F-9E are two very different sounding cartridges. It's a matter of taste which one someone will prefer as well as synergy dependent. My personal tastes prefer the XV-15/1200 over the Grace F-9E for a few reasons, but the F-9E is a tremendous cartridge; no one needs me to say so.

But what progressed in your contributions was a series of put downs against the Stanton and Pickering cartridges and not suggestions of similar-sounding new cartridges. This is where I felt you went into the realm of thread crapping.

The only similar sounding new cartridge to a Stanton 681EEE that I've ever truly come across is probably not one that the OP would be interested in, but I'll mention it anyway. The moving coil Audio-Technica F3/III that I have on my Technics SL-1200 sounds just like a Stanton 681EEE on the same turntable. It also, interestingly, has the same dimension tip: nude .2 x .7 elliptical.

Cartridges that are not new, but have a similar though not exactly the same sound include just about any Empire cartridge, but especially the 2000Z. Really nice styli for those, original and aftermarket, are plentiful and inexpensive. The Empire 2000Z can usually be had on the used market for about $100, and sometimes including a good original stylus. Really, though, these sound a bit more like the Pickering XV-15 than the Stanton 680/681.

For brand-spanking new, I actually thought that the Shure M35X had a remarkably Stantonesque sound, but it is a conical tip, not elliptical or even hyperelliptical.

Show me the progression of Stanton bashing.

If you're referring to my not wanting to purchase a Jico stylus for my Pickering then that's your issue.

If you're referring to my last comment about preferring the Grace cart on my "Grace arm" I don't see how one post can be perceived as a progression.

So please unless you just have a problem with me personally then show the progession. If you can't show some progression then I'll just consider this trolling.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Maybe yes, maybe no. The XV-15/1200 and the Grace F-9E are two very different sounding cartridges. It's a matter of taste which one someone will prefer as well as synergy dependent. My personal tastes prefer the XV-15/1200 over the Grace F-9E for a few reasons, but the F-9E is a tremendous cartridge; no one needs me to say so.

But what progressed in your contributions was a series of put downs against the Stanton and Pickering cartridges and not suggestions of similar-sounding new cartridges. This is where I felt you went into the realm of thread crapping.

The only similar sounding new cartridge to a Stanton 681EEE that I've ever truly come across is probably not one that the OP would be interested in, but I'll mention it anyway. The moving coil Audio-Technica F3/III that I have on my Technics SL-1200 sounds just like a Stanton 681EEE on the same turntable. It also, interestingly, has the same dimension tip: nude .2 x .7 elliptical.

Cartridges that are not new, but have a similar though not exactly the same sound include just about any Empire cartridge, but especially the 2000Z. Really nice styli for those, original and aftermarket, are plentiful and inexpensive. The Empire 2000Z can usually be had on the used market for about $100, and sometimes including a good original stylus. Really, though, these sound a bit more like the Pickering XV-15 than the Stanton 680/681.

For brand-spanking new, I actually thought that the Shure M35X had a remarkably Stantonesque sound, but it is a conical tip, not elliptical or even hyperelliptical.

If I'm not mistaken the diamond on the Jico D1200 is more akin to the D750 but sold as the replacement for the D1200 and why I haven't purchased one.

But I already have the OEM stylus and XV15 1200E cartridge so my only interest is for future replacement, when that day comes maybe the correct nude profile will be available. I like having a backup but my OEM XV15 625E and stylus will have to do if necessary lol.

Only in the last twenty or so posts lol.

Happen to have both the 1200 & 625 OEM cartridges and stylus, there is considerable difference. I would imagine the Jico wouldn't be an improvement over the OEM 625 so I see no point in the replacement.

It definitely takes a back seat to my Grace cartridges, at least on my Grace arm anyway lol.

Although my Thorens is very happy with the Pickerings.

Yes they are lol, but more worth the effort I must say.

Here's the list of my posts, so point out where I bashed Stanton and the progression of the bashing.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Yep there's the list!

You don't have to buy a Jico stylus for your Pickering. I don't care. I think the post is pretty clear. If you prefer the Grace cartridge, then say so--even though comments about the Grace aren't germane to the discussion. That's not the same as disparaging comments about styli, or that a certain cartridge being discussed takes "back seat," while bringing up another cartridge and/or arm that isn't germane to the discussion in any way. It's the combination of posts. If you want to talk about how the Grace is better than a Pickering D1200 in your opinion, you can do that all you want. Just start a different thread or join a thread in which that's the topic. I just don't see how your comments about the Grace in the manner given are helpful for the OP. The OP is not looking for an old, hard-to-find, Japanese cartridge of legendary status or the arm to match. The cartridge is expensive when found, and often, the search for a decent stylus requires another few hundred bucks of expenditure or usually a long period of constant searching to find a useable unit at a bargain price. How do these comments help? Seems to me like you're just taking an opportunity to talk about how much you like your Grace (and Grace arm) and pretty much dismiss the useful conversation happening here. Which is fine. But it seems to me like thread crapping. That's my opinion.

The OP clearly likes and appreciates his Stanton and either wants to find a new stylus or a cartridge that sounds like it that's new. You came in made disparaging comments about styli that were suggested, which you ostensibly don't even have any experience with except for the original D1200, and then you brought up another cartridge, fine as it is, but one the OP is not interested in, and then used it to say that the Stanton/Pickering isn't as good as it is, (if the OP uses an arm that he doesn't have or wants to buy). Seems like trolling to me. Definitely seems like thread crapping.

Consider me a troll, too. I have only my many thousands of comments posted here to defend myself as to whether or not I'm a troll. I don't have a personal problem with you, either. But thread crapping is thread crapping. You're certainly not as bad as some people with thread crapping. Don't worry: I call them out on it, too.

Now this ^^^^^^ is thread crapping.

 

[Grenadeslio]

Yes, you must. In a Stanton thread. That's called thread crapping.

This^^^^^^ is also thread crapping.

Along with all the uneccassary negative posts aimed at other members, that's thread crapping

If informing the OP the Jico stylus isn't the same as the OEM isn't helping the OP then I guess that's your opinion.

If mentioning another cartridge the OP might like even if rare when the OP requested recommendations isn't helping the OP in your mind then that's also your opinion.

If the OP didn't like my suggestions don't you think it's up to the OP to decide not you?

Ok, done with this, consider youself ignored, no time for negative people.

 

[boreas]

Show me the progression of Stanton bashing.

If you're referring to my not wanting to purchase a Jico stylus for my Pickering then that's your issue.

If you're referring to my last comment about preferring the Grace cart on my "Grace arm" I don't see how one post can be perceived as a progression.

So please unless you just have a problem with me personally then show the progession. If you can't show some progression then I'll just consider this trolling.

This is totally irrelevant to the topic under discussion and pointlessly argumentative. In other words, it's text book thread crapping. If your ego requires that you win this perceived argument, then I suggest you do so privately.

John

 

[Grenadeslio]

This is totally irrelevant to the topic under discussion and pointlessly argumentative. In other words, it's text book thread crapping. If your ego requires that you win this perceived argument, then I suggest you do so privately.

John

Already said I was done with this, now why would you want to jump in and start it up again, now this is text book trolling at its finest.

 

[Grenadeslio]

I've never considered a moving coil cartridge because of the low output issue, but more importantly to someone like me who doesn't have lots of disposable cash to use, I don't see the value of spending money on a cartridge that the stylus can't be replaced on. Seems like a waste to have to pitch the cartridge because the stylus wears out. Can these be re-tipped? If so, I imagine it isn't a whole lot cheaper to re-tip than replace the cartridge. I think I will try the Jico D1200 stylus since you feel it is superior to a lot of the others (and at a reasonable price, too). I will likely stick with my Stanton cartridge, since with all the small tweaks I have done on the turntable it is sounding quite detailed on many of the records I own. Still, it's nice to know what to look for if it ever gives up on me. I have been disappointed on how it sounds on some vinyl, but I suspect that has more to do with how the original recording was mastered when all the tracks were recorded and mixed, than it does with how well the cartridge is performing.

This is your thread, I apologize if my mentioning the difference between the Pickering OEM and Jico stylus wasn't of any help. Also if my mentioning another cartridge that would most likely work with your arm having similar compliance was in some way unwanted as has been implied.

I never mentioned Stanton having no personal experience with them, but Pickering's stylus are interchangeable and why I mentioned them. If it appeared I was bashing either I wasn't, my Pickering and Thorens are very happy together, it's a great cartridge.

I hope the Jico stylus is what you're looking for and look forward to your comments.

 

[mccalljd]

Being a rather infrequent commenter on forums af any kind, the last thing I want is to spark an argument among all those who have been kind enough to comment on my thread. I consider this just a discussion among friendly parties, and even in face to face discussions, participants occasionally go off topic. Being a bit naive about forum protocol, I wasn't annoyed when the thread got somewhat derailed because I was generally getting my questions answered by those who had relevant content to share. So in the holiday spirit, we can all agree to disagree and let it go (god, I sound like that annoying Disney song) for now. I do have a further question regarding the Russell replacement stylus I have and that is, is there a likely break-in time before I get the full benefit of this stylus' capabilities? And with the Jico D1200?

 

[Grenadeslio]

Definitely, some as much as 100 hrs. Again no personal experience with these exact stylus but break in is normal.