Stanton-Pickering P-mount stylus questions

Vinylmasters

Super Member
I really hate sorting out all these stylus - and especially for the older carts!

Stanton L720 - is the D71EE the best stylus available for it? What is available that woks on it? I've seen posts it's the same as the Stanton 500?? I've read this is an entry level cart but it specs 10-20k?? For an entry level cart??

I also have a Pickering TLE (w/ original NOS stylus) as well. It looks identical to the L720, is it the same as the TLE?
 
The L720 has a plate on the top to add mass, where the 500 has the 1/2 inch mount mounting "ears". The 500 stylii will fit on a L720 if you trim away some of the plastic from the top of the stylus assembly. It was the bottom-of-the-line p-mount model for many years, with p-mount versions of the 680 & 800 above it.

There is also a D71-2E stylus available, but I'm not certain how it compares to the D71EE.

The Pickering TLE is the same cartridge, and the stylii will swap with the Stanton's. There's a DL2E stylus for it that's a step up from the DLE stylus.
 
The L720 has a plate on the top to add mass, where the 500 has the 1/2 inch mount mounting "ears". The 500 stylii will fit on a L720 if you trim away some of the plastic from the top of the stylus assembly. It was the bottom-of-the-line p-mount model for many years, with p-mount versions of the 680 & 800 above it.

There is also a D71-2E stylus available, but I'm not certain how it compares to the D71EE.

The Pickering TLE is the same cartridge, and the stylii will swap with the Stanton's. There's a DL2E stylus for it that's a step up from the DLE stylus.

How does the TLE stylus compare to these?
 
The first gen L720P originally came with the D70E, a .4 x .7 elliptical. It had a pretty nice tone and decent detail, but didn't track very well at P-mount spec. It was replaced by the D71EE, which in my experience, tracked even worse! Big sibilance problems! They will calm down if you track them at 1.8g-2g, but do so at your own risk. They have a supposed max VTF of 1.5g. (I personally think the VTA specs are crap... Pretty sure they claim them as such to make this stylus seem T4P compatible. It's truly not, IMO.) It's too bad about the sibilance, because these would be a nice sounding stylus if it weren't for that. The D71-2E with the clear assembly is a .3 x .7 elliptical, as I recall. Better sound and better tracking. OEM styli can still be found, and aren't super expensive... Probably the best choice for this cartridge.

And yes, these carts are internally a 500 body. If you decide to trim up a 500 stylus to put on the L720, (or install a Pickering wide body stylus,) be aware that the cantilever is likely a slightly different length. If it's an elliptical stylus, it may not work well in a P Mount installation. Conicals are less picky.
 
The first gen L720P originally came with the D70E, a .4 x .7 elliptical. It had a pretty nice tone and decent detail, but didn't track very well at P-mount spec. It was replaced by the D71EE, which in my experience, tracked even worse! Big sibilance problems! They will calm down if you track them at 1.8g-2g, but do so at your own risk. They have a supposed max VTF of 1.5g. (I personally think the VTA specs are crap... Pretty sure they claim them as such to make this stylus seem T4P compatible. It's truly not, IMO.) It's too bad about the sibilance, because these would be a nice sounding stylus if it weren't for that. The D71-2E with the clear assembly is a .3 x .7 elliptical, as I recall. Better sound and better tracking. OEM styli can still be found, and aren't super expensive... Probably the best choice for this cartridge.

And yes, these carts are internally a 500 body. If you decide to trim up a 500 stylus to put on the L720, (or install a Pickering wide body stylus,) be aware that the cantilever is likely a slightly different length. If it's an elliptical stylus, it may not work well in a P Mount installation. Conicals are less picky.

Appreciate the heads up! I really haven't much knowledge on the Stanton/Pickering P-mounts, but any help anyone can lend on them... I'm all ears. I know there were P-mount versions of many of their popular carts, but I'm not sure what's what, what's best - and probably even more importantly now, what still had styli readily and reasonably available for them (OEM, not the re-makes that leave a lot to be desired).
 
I'm a big fan of the Pickering TL series & Stanton L727/L737/L747 p-mounts, which are the p-mount versions of the Pickering XV-15 and Stanton 680/681 cartridges. This is somewhat coloured by the fact that I bought a Pickering TL1 with my first turntable back in 1986, but as my p-mount collection has grown, these have remained a favorite. Fortunately for me, back when I started my obsession with p-mount cartridges, these Stanton/Pickering stylii were more plentiful; I have a pair of Stanton D74S stylii (new old stock from eBay if memory serves) and a pair of Pickering DTL2 (from the late Garage-a-Records).

Searching for authentic stylii for these this morning, I found a few options at Turntableneedles and not much else.

http://www.turntableneedles.com/Stanton-D73--our-Needle-826-DEV_p_1615.html
http://www.turntableneedles.com/DTL-3S-Needle-609-DEX-Genuine-Pickering_p_731.html

The other option is to use stylii from these cartridges' 1/2 inch mount relatives, if one is able to adjust the tracking force on one's p-mount turntable to account for differences in stylus mass and tracking force.
 
I'm a pretty big fan of these as well, and I've only just gotten into the game of playing around with Stanton. I overlooked them for years because, well, they were cheap, a bit long in the tooth looking, and I thought they'd always be around. Their reputation wasn't that great because people seemed to always be chasing the exotic. But now that they're gone, they are often heralded as "the best" and sorely missed by many.

I started looking for an L720EE just as the discontinued stocks dried up and so I haven't actually found a new one. Adding confusion is that the D71EE apparently, according to some information out there, came in an early .4 x .7 elliptical version and a later .3 x .7 elliptical version. KABUSA website has great information and Kevin is pleasure to email questions to. Just a couple days ago, I ordered one of his JICO D71EE to try out on my L700E that I was able to find NOS. I will let you know how it sounds.

I have no complaints on tracking or sound when these carts are installed in my Technics semi auto P mount table with original stylus. Beware, though: the Pfanstiehl stylii SUCK! I got two of them off of ebay brand new and they sibilate like hell. These are white plastic and marked with a navy or black dot on the top. I bought one and it sounded like sandpaper, so I emailed the seller and he promptly sent me another and, well, it sounded just as bad as the first. It's not defective; it's just junk.

If I install them on a standard 1/2" table, they will sound "normal" only if you crank the VTF up to about 2.5, so these will not work on a P-Mount table even if they are intended for P-Mount carts.

On the other hand, I received in the mail yesterday an aftermarket stylus that appears to be "TEI" brand--also from ebay, for a whopping $8.98 or $9.98, your choice--same seller, apparently same stylus, but two different BIN prices, and about $3 in shipping. Currently, it's on my Pro-Ject One set to 1.25g, the P-Mount standard, and it sounds GREAT! These are also white plastic and marked "DLC" on the side, almost like original Stanton, and sound to me as good as the original marked DE, and I'm not going from memory. I buy replacement stylii while the originals are still barely used so I can compare. Like all aftermarket Stanton/Pickering that I know of, the metal tube is shiny and smooth. Original Stanton/Pickering stylii have sort of a dull rough finish on the tube and clamp marks from manufacture.

The only problem with this TEI brand is that I don't know if it's conical or .4 x .7 elliptical. The description on both auctions reads .4 x .7 conical. What does that mean??? The actual product comes with no information except for a sticker that says "Made in Colombia." I emailed the seller, but I don't have a response yet as to what the diamond profile actually is. Maybe the $8.98 version is the conical and the $9.98 is elliptical? Can't say. The photo of the item on the two auctions, in any event, is the same as far as I can tell.

I also have an L727E that I got off ebay NOS for about $50 and it sounds fantastic. Doesn't come with a brush because it's for P Mount use, but if you install it in universal mode on a standard 1/2" arm, and you have an old Stanton brush from another cart, the brush will install no problem and work as it should. With the brush mounted, these Stanton carts track better than anything else I own. I mean, not that I like to play warped records, but I do have one warped record that I should replace that has an honest-to-goodness mogul on it. It will throw other carts such as Grado, 440 MLa, Ortofon 320U, etc, right off like a bronco will buck a rodeo contestant off its back after bouncing him a few times. The Stanton with a brush mounted just hugs it! It's unbelievable! Without the brush, it will wobble, but still hug and not skip. Other carts that won't skip will still register a knocking noise. The Stanton with or without the brush doesn't pick up anything but what's in the groove. It's really a testament to careful and robust suspension design meant for FM radio broadcast where, I'm sure, there were a lot of poor quality records to play and sloppy or rough handling by DJs.

Sounds great, too. I like the Stanton/Pickering sound and that's why these two brands in one interest me. It's a fat but detailed sound, bassy but clean with nice well-defined sparkly highs and an ample mid. They are neutral but not antiseptic like some of my newer carts can sound, which, I suppose, were developed in the CD age and can sound a bit, I don't know, too clean and too behaved maybe? I feel that Stanton/Pickering with original stylii just give a fuller image somehow and it ain't the hype. Even some of the Pfanstiehl stylii can render much of this quality in the lower ranges, but they fail miserably with the sandpaper sibilance at Stanton tracking forces of 1 to 1.2 grams. The Pfanstiehls really need 2.5 to 3 grams to kill the sibilance and that's a lot more weight than I want in my grooves.

Absolutely let me know! I'll write more as soon as I have a few minutes.... Thanks much!
 
Those TEIs I am sure are conical. The auction lists them a 4x7 but the part number doesnt specify DE so I m sure it isnt elliptical. The auction listing also tracking at 1-2grams. That wont do. I m running two of them and you have to be at least 3-3.5grams to eliminate sibilance and promote perfect tracking in the TEI or Pfannies. These are exceptionally good needles. I like them and I just started using them last night, they deliver an awesomely full sound.
 
"For $11.50 or so a piece shipped, you can't beat them"

Been looking for these stylii this morning and no luck, if it isn't against forum rules could someone please PM me a link ? I have a pfstanthiel on my L737 and would like to take it to the next level! I can hear this cartridge has some potential.... thanks!
 
I could send you a link, but it wouldn't do you any good. The stylus he is describing is a TEI replacement for a Pickering DLC stylus, which wouldn't fit your Stanton L737.
 
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The KAB USA Russell Industries/EVG D71EE replacement stylus arrived today and it sounds great. Definitely not a Pfanstiehl. It sounds pretty original to my ears in my system, though my system is probably not the most revealing in the world.

A word about Pfanstiehl stylii: Lots of Pfanstiehls are GREAT for other applications, so I don't mean to slam all their offerings. I actually quite enjoy the Pfanstiehl MG-29 cartridge in both 1/2" and P Mount versions with both elliptical and conical stylii. But the Pfanstiehl D71EE stylus is just not good unless weighted down to about 3g no matter what the package says, in my system. I suppose that it could be possible that the Pfanstiehl stylus could work even better than the originals in a different tonearm than mine.

Just to clarify, this is the JICO D71EE Stylus listed on the KAB site???
 
Based on this thread. I became curious to try one of these TEI styli. I did some research and they are indeed Normarh styli made in Columbia. I bought one from each of these ebay sellers (in the above links) and the same stylus arrived from the two different sellers. So they are the same thing, the only difference is the price. I began to regret my purchase with more research because a few respected vinyl people here said Normarh were terrible and some folks from South America seconded that. So I was disappointed to hear that. When they arrived today I did a testing of them, and I back up Needlestein that these a quite good sounding. They seem to produced a very plentiful bottom end (a tad muddy)and the top end is pleasantly sizzle free. Maybe it's a case of the grass is greener for S. Americans, but I certainly like the sound of these better than any pfanstiehl I've tried (a few Stanton replacements) so I will say if you're are not looking for a high end system replacement stylus, but have a more middle range stereo in the hundreds rather than thousand, these TEI styli are a worthwhile buy to bring a cart back to life -- and for the price they are a real bargain. I did not hear any distortion or sibilance produced tracking at 1.25gm on my Technics SL-7 linear tracker, with the stylus on a Pickering TL-3 cart. I actually preferred the sound of the TEI stylus to genuine Pickering 625DJ styli I bought. The OEM Pickering have more detail, but are a less warm and pleasant sounding stylus. I am happy I bought these TEI as it's always nice to have a back up on hand. Thanks, Needlestein.
 
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the things is dudes...I dont thini those TEI are elliptical because they dont provide enouggh information to absolutely declare that they are elliptical. And that also being from South America I m not sure they are made to a great enough standard or quality control as an elliptical stylus, but comfortably enough as a broadcast conical stylus. I could be wrong but I m saying that unless one of you guys puts in on a microscope to prove it is elliptical I think it is conical.
 
i've tried this tei stylus mounted in a stanton l720ee on 3 non-adjustable p-mount tables (static and dynamic balanced) and all have displayed sibilance. the stylus i have came in a clear plastic box with a blue paper insert labeled TEI 748 D and a gold oval sticker displaying 'made in columbia'. the stylus is white with DLC crudely, badly printed in black on the side; cantilever is aligned straight and tip is perpendicular. i think this is the stylus everyone is primarily talking about in this thread.

i'm guessing the sibilance will subside if i increase the tracking force, but i was hoping for the results others reported at the 1.25g t4p spec. i only have 1 adjustable p-mount table and it only goes up to 1.5g of vtf. hopefully that will be enough...i got rid of all my standard mount tonearm tables.
 
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