Stop fearing the sub, learn to love it!

After reading most of this thread I definitely want to try out some subs. Can someone point me to a link on how to connect them to a vintage receiver? I'm looking at some budget models on Craigslist and notice multi pin connectors and such. How do I know what to look for in a cheap sub, one that will give me an idea if I want to pursue getting something better later.
 
Wow im not even gonna say anything about that term.

Seriously, you win. Let's just chill. We're just talking about toys.

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Actually, I've become sort of used to negative responses. The most negative was when I had the "nerve" to say a Pioneer receiver wasn't really suited to driving Magneplanars and even less so for a more difficult load such as anything with Watkins woofers. I didn't even mention Apogee ribbons. They are probably the most difficult load in audio history.

That it happens to be true had no effect on the negative responses.:D
 
Actually, I've become sort of used to negative responses. The most negative was when I had the "nerve" to say a Pioneer receiver wasn't really suited to driving Magneplanars and even less so for a more difficult load such as anything with Watkins woofers. I didn't even mention Apogee ribbons. They are probably the most difficult load in audio history.

That it happens to be true had no effect on the negative responses.:D

I would not let the negative feed back stop me from making a statement
with information discovered from first hand knowledge . This is why I go
to AK . I am also the type of person to say the king has no clothes .
Thank you . and PS my subs are in stereo .
 
After reading most of this thread I definitely want to try out some subs. Can someone point me to a link on how to connect them to a vintage receiver? I'm looking at some budget models on Craigslist and notice multi pin connectors and such. How do I know what to look for in a cheap sub, one that will give me an idea if I want to pursue getting something better later.

If your receiver does not have a "pre out" then look for subs with "speaker level" inputs.
 
My input on this entire thread would be that you should throw out any preconceived notions about how to implement subwoofers when attempting to use distributed bass. It's intent is entirely based on resolving room issues, not speaker issues and room issues *will* exist in every one of our systems. The conventional rules about implementing subwoofers, in my experience, will always result in performance that falls short of world class.

To those of you who continue, time and time again, to proclaim the tired and hollow "full range speakers don't need subs" mantra (or any variation of it), the above comment illuminates why it makes no difference if your mains are "flat" down to 30, 25, or 20 Hz (or even subsonic, for that matter). Their balls will still get clamped by the pliers of simple physics. You can only fight back with physics and that's what distributed bass does. And no, an EQ is not an appropriate cure for room acoustics induced unbalanced LF reproduction if you use it to boost any frequencies (and no room is going to leave you with only peaks and no dips) as boosting introduces distortion by putting additional strain on the amplifier and the main speaker's LF driver.

And to understand that distributed bass is a system in and of itself, not custom tailored to any specific set of main speakers, is also in critical in understanding its intended purpose. My DB rig works with any mains I set up and the only adjustment I have to make to the subs when switching main speakers is the gain on the plate amps (since sensitivity of main speakers and the way they interact with the room is almost always different).
 
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To those of you who continue time and time again to proclaim the tired "full range speakers don't need subs" mantra (or any variation of it) the above comment illuminates why it makes no difference if your mains are "flat" down to 30, 25, or 20 Hz (or even subsonic, for that matter). Their balls will still get clamped by the pliers of simple physics. You can only fight back with physics and that's what distributed bass does.

And to understand that distributed bass is a system in and of itself, not custom tailored to any specific set of main speakers, is also in critical in understanding its intended purpose. My DB rig works with any mains I set up and the only adjustment I have to make to the subs when switching main speakers is the gain on the plate amps (since sensitivity of main speakers and the way they interact with the room is almost always different).

In case of subs in stereo, however, that wouldn't apply, would it?
 
^^^

In theory, no...it wouldn't. And that's why I've moved away from the practical application of it. The theory seems to stand up.
 
I would love to see a distributed bass sticky on this page. I place where DB is defined and discussed, along with the associated room issues and placement.

No thread crapping allowed. A safe haven for those interested in learning and discovering new ideas. That's what AK should always be about anyway but I guess there will always be those who are stuck within their narrow or sometimes singular point of view.

cubdog
 
Does a sub enhance/improve performance of bookshelf mains?

I'm kicking around the idea of getting bookshelf speakers and then employing a good subwoofer for low frequencies.

Does this take a load off of the main bookshelfs and enable them to do their thing "better"?
 
I'd say go for it:yes:

I'm kicking around the idea of getting bookshelf speakers and then employing a good subwoofer for low frequencies.

Does this take a load off of the main bookshelfs and enable them to do their thing "better"?
 
First, let me say that however people choose to have their system is their preference and for them it may be the right way at least subjectively speaking.

But, I have come to understand that bass exhibits itself quite differently than midrange of high frequencies. With the lower frequencies there will, and let me repeat that, there will be room modes regardless of what pair of speakers are in question.

From a room and frequency perspective, you simply cannot obtain optimal bass without a distributed bass system in place. I know of no exceptions. I said perspective because we all have different perspective so some may prefer their sound just as it is complete with the room modes that they DO have.

As others have mentioned before, subs being located symmetrically along a wall is usually not the best place for the bass to be located. Neither is directly below the other drivers as in a conventional pair of speakers. Bass is part of the totality of the sound but it's a different animal than the higher frequencies and should be treated as such.

At the moment I have only two 15" drivers for the bass but they are located elsewhere in my room where I have the greatest benefit. They perform far better than if they were under or next to my mains. With only two subs, I still have room modes but the situation is improved where they are located. The next step will be to increase that number to 4 or 5, basically bringing the bass in my system up to the level of hi fidelity.
 
Rob are those 15"s controlled by that miniDSP at the same time with your OBLAs?

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Brown brought me a new toy today. Have to see/hear what this subwoofer thing is all about. I bought a rythmik f12. I'll start with one and see how it goes. Can't wait to start tinkering tonight.
 
I'm kicking around the idea of getting bookshelf speakers and then employing a good subwoofer for low frequencies.

Does this take a load off of the main bookshelfs and enable them to do their thing "better"?

I would have to say yes, my little inefficient Salk bookshelf speaker go down to about 48hz but I don"t even say that of them cutting them of around 70hz. The results are nothing short of spectacular even with one Salk subwoofer. Still the idea of DB is intriguing so I plan on adding another matching Salk sub plus one or two DIY sub projects.
 
Rob are those 15"s controlled by that miniDSP at the same time with your OBLAs?

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Yes they are. It makes my job a lot easier. Channel 1, 2, 3 are the left woofer, mids, tweeters. Channel 4, 5, 6 are the right woofer, mids, tweeters. They are only that way because that's how I assigned each channel and they are linked so foe example, when I make a change to channel 1(left woofer) it automatically makes the same changes to channel 4 (right woofer).

I have the 4 x 10 unit so I still have two more channels should I decide to make any additions.
 
I have the 15" drivers cut off at 70Hz. I use a low shelf filter to give a little boost to them in the 15-30Hz range If I remember correctly.
 
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