StylinLP New Wharfedale w90 speaker restore thread

[Gang-Twanger]

Update: Hey, slow going. I finally got around to completing one of the w90 speakers. All the new parts are all soldered in with that super nice Johnson's silver solder and the new terminal clamps are clamped on and all hooked up. Dollied the speaker into the audio room and hooked it up to one side. Left the Wharfedale w60 speaker hooked up to the other side. Wow, I really liked how good my w60's sounded but these w90's is so much more of everything! So much bigger massive sound stage with oodles of layers and textures. living and breathing music that fills and floats into the room. I have a sense that these are world class speakers. More speaker than I ever thought I would actually own in my life time. Can't wait to finish the other speaker. But I ran short of my Kimber Kable hookup wire so had to order another 10' from Parts Connexion. After they are all done I will make a you tube video of them playing. Here is some photo's on the finished speaker.

Yup. You got that right. The extra weight that the dual woofers/mids/tweeters bring to the table makes a huge difference. Weight, tone/timbre, complexity, etc. Wait til you spend some time and really get to know them. When I first got mine, I was saying the same thing. I remember the first album I played through them. The Allman Bros' "At Fillmore East", which is a recording I know like the back of my hand, not to mention the instruments the band members used to play it, and the W90's made it sound better than I had ever heard it before. That whole weekend when I bought them was a revelation. And that was before I got the Fisher tuber and put in the oil caps. You'll find there is A LOT of potential in those things. Placement is key. Get those distances perfect, toe them in so they're pointed right at you, and make sure the mids and tweeters are at eye/ear-level, and that's pretty much it.

Glad to see you making progress with those. I'll check out the demo video with my headphones. I recently-posted a demo vid myself (below in my signature), using the current setup with the redone 800C Fisher and the W90's after I did the oil caps (The room is a disaster both acoustically and visually, but the sound is not [The ottoman is flipped on it's side behind the speakers because I move it out of the way when I listen]... I'm actually going to look at another place today, a studio apartment... We'll see what happens... I can't wait to move out of this hellhole... I'm just being careful/choosy so I don't make the same mistake again, plus I'm specifically looking for something particularly-hi-fi-friendly and away from neighbors' ears as well as their BS... Neighbors can be a real crapshoot as I learned... Emphasis on the crap).

*EDIT* - Like he said, nice setup you got there. I like that table.

 

[StylinLP]

Thanks Gang-Twanger. I designed it based on the Teres Audio schematics and had my Master Machinist friend fabricate it. I purchased the battery powered motor and Clamp from Teres Audio. Ive been debating on upgrading from the Rega RB250 tonearm to something better but that will be at least $1500 or more. It sounds great with the Ortofon 2M Black cart and MM tube phono stage. So ive been putting it off.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Yeah, that's cool. I could never build my own amp like that. Don't have the steady hands for soldering. I'm still trying to master the vinyl learning curve, which is especially-tough considering the fact that I'm using a Dual 1019 idler-drive table from the mid to late '60's. But Dual is a great match for Wharfedales, same as Fisher tube gear. Yesterday I got a first-pressing copy of Robert Cray's "Strong Persuader" LP. Wanted one for a long time. Now I just need "Midnight Stroll".

 

[Crestwood23]

Thanks Gang-Twanger. I designed it based on the Teres Audio schematics and had my Master Machinist friend fabricate it. I purchased the battery powered motor and Clamp from Teres Audio. Ive been debating on upgrading from the Rega RB250 tonearm to something better but that will be at least $1500 or more. It sounds great with the Ortofon 2M Black cart and MM tube phono stage. So ive been putting it off.

Nice setup!
If you like the general character of the RB250 but are looking for an affordable upgrade, I recommend checking out an Audiomods Classic arm. They can be had for about $600 used if you get lucky, well worth it!

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Nice setup!
If you like the general character of the RB250 but are looking for an affordable upgrade, I recommend checking out an Audiomods Classic arm. They can be had for about $600 used if you get lucky, well worth it!

Hey there, duder... Have you come up for air yet since getting the 8b into the L300 biamp chain?

I've been very-content with the 800C/oil-capped W90's combo ever since I made a couple small, but important changes to the room as well as my mid & tweeter level settings. My neighbors despise me (not as much as I despise them ), but even they stop what they're doing and listen when I'm playing something like "Papa Was A Rolling Stone".

 

[Crestwood23]

Hey there, duder... Have you come up for air yet since getting the 8b into the L300 biamp chain?

I've been very-content with the 800C/oil-capped W90's combo ever since I made a couple small, but important changes to the room as well as my mid & tweeter level settings. My neighbors despise me (not as much as I despise them ), but even they stop what they're doing and listen when I'm playing something like "Papa Was A Rolling Stone".

LOL yeah the 8b + L300 combo continues to blow my mind on a daily basis! :yes:
The dynamics, bass drive and atmospheric realism of that rig are just SHOCKING and make me happy to be alive. For electronic music, vintage synths, big cinematic soundtracks, and top tier audiophile-type recordings they have yet to be matched to my ears. Probably the LEAST neighbor friendly rig on the planet!

OTOH, the w90s + oil caps + tubes has got that rig beat when it comes to my two favorite instruments - the electric guitar and the hammond B3. As you've said in the past GT, there is something that is "just exactly perfect" about the way this combo presents "analog" guitars - the meaty tone of Claptons LP on the Beano album, or the nasty germanium fuzz of "Trouble" by the Music Machine, or the opening acoustic bliss of "Alone Again, Or", or the - OK I think you KNOW what I'm taking about!

Now I have yet to try the 8b on the w90's, just haven't had the time, I bet THAT will be something else. In the meantime, I have a restored Pilot 245a el84 integrated on the way. I plan to do an el84 shootout with that and my Fisher x101ST. The winner will advance to the final showdown against the 8b!
:thmbsp:

 

[Gang-Twanger]

LOL yeah the 8b + L300 combo continues to blow my mind on a daily basis! :yes:
The dynamics, bass drive and atmospheric realism of that rig are just SHOCKING and make me happy to be alive. For electronic music, vintage synths, big cinematic soundtracks, and top tier audiophile-type recordings they have yet to be matched to my ears. Probably the LEAST neighbor friendly rig on the planet!

OTOH, the w90s + oil caps + tubes has got that rig beat when it comes to my two favorite instruments - the electric guitar and the hammond B3. As you've said in the past GT, there is something that is "just exactly perfect" about the way this combo presents "analog" guitars - the meaty tone of Claptons LP on the Beano album, or the nasty germanium fuzz of "Trouble" by the Music Machine, or the opening acoustic bliss of "Alone Again, Or", or the - OK I think you KNOW what I'm taking about!

Now I have yet to try the 8b on the w90's, just haven't had the time, I bet THAT will be something else. In the meantime, I have a restored Pilot 245a el84 integrated on the way. I plan to do an el84 shootout with that and my Fisher x101ST. The winner will advance to the final showdown against the 8b!
:thmbsp:

Wow, that is a seriously-bold statement. I don't doubt it though. There's something visceral and organic about that sound. Something soulful. And I can enjoy them at such a crazy-low volume, which I love. Last night, I was listening to Muddy Waters' "Electric Mud", which is a 1968 album of funk reworkings of his classic tracks, complete with fuzzed-out guitars, and it just sounded so-damn-RIGHT, you know? Well, yeah, of course you know. But it's hard to explain that sound to someone who's never heard it. Can't explain it with specs.

I love germanium transistor fuzzes. I a Fuzz Face replica that is as good/better than a cherry-picked original. Billy Gibbons uses one as well as the treble booster I have (the Analog Man Beano Boost). And the W90's nail the sound of those types of pedals. Spooky-authentic. This is why the W90's are here to stay. Their timbral qualities. I'm home right now, and the neighbors aren't, so I just threw on "The Mack OST

"With tips from the blind man, ..."

By the way, check out the "Baby Wharfedales" thread over in the Speakers section (Valvetype's thread). Some very-cool little enclosures from the '50's.

 

[TubeHiFiNut]

You are tempting me to find a pair of W90s.....

Hmmmmm.....I may have to turn my home office into the 'British Audio' room. :scratch2:

 

[Gang-Twanger]

You are tempting me to find a pair of W90s.....

Hmmmmm.....I may have to turn my home office into the 'British Audio' room. :scratch2:

Read what Crestwood23 said about them after he finally DID hook his pair up to his Marantz 8b, and you just might. I will have to try some other tube receivers/amps with mine as I get them, but the relaxed vocals of my 800C really suit the room they're in at the moment.

If you like a rich, open-sounding midrange with that "breath of life" bloom, then you'd like old British sound. Tannoy is on the drier end of it, a bit leaner in the middle, with Wharfedale and Leak and maybe Quad representing the richer, bloomier side. For guitar-playing AK'ers, the early to mid '60's Wharfedale sound is almost literally the hi-fi equivalent of the old Vox AC30 guitar amp sound. That best describes the classic Wharfie sound... Natural... Visceral... Organic... Especially the mids... That's where they just rip the frigging lid off.

 

[phatster]

Just put on some Byrds "Turn Turn Turn",WOW this definitely is in the sweet spot.That Rick is cutting through just right.Had to try some Cat Stevens...ditto!I'm reliving my youth but it sounds even better.Here come the Hollies,Bus Stop vocals are razor sharp.I'm thinking the W90's are British Invasion minded!

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Just put on some Byrds "Turn Turn Turn",WOW this definitely is in the sweet spot.That Rick is cutting through just right.Had to try some Cat Stevens...ditto!I'm reliving my youth but it sounds even better.Here come the Hollies,Bus Stop vocals are razor sharp.I'm thinking the W90's are British Invasion minded!

Yes! Many people out there will insist that good speakers are good speakers, and it has nothing to do with the music and one speaker being "better for a certain type of music", but listen to some W90's and a Fisher tuber playing some British Invasion, psychedelic rock, or '60's blues-rock, and THEN say that. For Beatles or the "Beano" Bluesbreakers album, I can't think of a single speaker I'd rather use than a pair of early '60's Wharfies. It's not so surprising though. It's a classic British speaker from the '60's, so a high level of synergy is not so unexpected.

You're right. They hit that sweet spot where they tighten up, smooth out, and open up, you get that super-wide soundstage, and that's when they getcha'. Game over, man. Game over.

Keeping the area in front of them nice and spacious, uncluttered really helps with my setup to maximize the bass-response, and I do what else I can to make the most of everything in this room, but there is so much potential in these things that I feel I'm just getting started, and mine sound DAMN-good at this point. I have DAC changes, phono rig upgrades, AMP upgrades, etc. A LOT of uncharted territory left out there.

Have you tried "Deja Vu' or some solo Neil from those days? Epic...

 

[phatster]

I'll sample some Neil tonite,have a fondness for Cortez the Killer.

 

[StylinLP]

It's too bad you guys can't hear what I hear everynight listening to my Teres Audio turntable and Melody 18 wpc integrated amp. It sounds so good I'm having trouble describing it. That's why I have been quiet lately. Been listening ro two records every night taking it all in. Getting used to what I'm hearing just to be able to describe it. It's like going to the Rocky mountain Audio Fest and hearing $80k speakers and trying to understand what your hearing and trying to describe them. All I can say is the word big. Big sound stage, big instruments, big voices with alot of separation with conviction and depth with great textures and tonality.

 

[Crestwood23]

It's too bad you guys can't hear what I hear everynight listening to my Teres Audio turntable and Melody 18 wpc integrated amp. It sounds so good I'm having trouble describing it. That's why I have been quiet lately. Been listening ro two records every night taking it all in. Getting used to what I'm hearing just to be able to describe it. It's like going to the Rocky mountain Audio Fest and hearing $80k speakers and trying to understand what your hearing and trying to describe them. All I can say is the word big. Big sound stage, big instruments, big voices with alot of separation with conviction and depth with great textures and tonality.

:yes:

Sounds about right!

:thmbsp:

 

[phatster]

That be audiospeak for Nirvana!

 

[Gang-Twanger]

It's too bad you guys can't hear what I hear everynight listening to my Teres Audio turntable and Melody 18 wpc integrated amp. It sounds so good I'm having trouble describing it. That's why I have been quiet lately. Been listening ro two records every night taking it all in. Getting used to what I'm hearing just to be able to describe it. It's like going to the Rocky mountain Audio Fest and hearing $80k speakers and trying to understand what your hearing and trying to describe them. All I can say is the word big. Big sound stage, big instruments, big voices with alot of separation with conviction and depth with great textures and tonality.

That's good to hear. I know that feeling. It's like an ever-expanding sphere of musical joy inside of you, bursting at the seams..

Aerosmith's "Rocks" was just playing, "Last Child" specifically, and even the backing vocals had that breath of life. And the guitars? Forget about it. And before that I was playing "Back In Black", and W90's will indeed put Malcolm and Angus in the room. They do quite-well with that kind of hard-rock where the guitars have that '70's overdrive tone (Aerosmith, Deep Purple, Judas Priest, Sabbath, KISS, etc... That old-school Marshall crunch). But they also do well with the fuzz tones of the '60's and '70's, so it's not like they can't do saturated guitar sounds (Those old fuzz/dirt pedal circuits were uber-simple though, most of them, treble boosters a la Ritchie Blackmore, Rory Gallagher, Brian May, David Gilmour being the simplest). But there's something about a lot of '80's guitar tones, that overprocessed stuff from the mid to late '80's that's like kryptonite to old Wharfedales. And it's the same with overprocessed drums. W90's like it straight, no junk in it.

I think a lot of AK'ers see us talking like this and think we're all huffing paint fumes or something. :scratch2:

Glad to hear those are working out in that space. I imagine the W90's putting a lot of heavily-revered high-end speakers to shame, and they get it done with nothing but cone-drivers and a few watts of power from a 50 year old tube rig. They aren't the dynamic kings that the early Klipschorns are or the slam kings of the later JBL's, but they still rule that middle. Like Crestwood23 said, they kick out those rich, natural midrange textures better than anything, at least anything I'VE ever heard in 20 years of visiting the hi-fi dealers in my area. The W90 was advertised as the model that would restore the Wharfedale sound of former years, specifically the sound of the huge speaker systems they used in the live vs recorded events (The last of those events being in early 1960, if my memory serves me correctly... Only two years prior to the debut of the W90, so not exactly yesteryear). The W90 could have easily handled that gig. Turned up nice and loud in a big place like that? Absolutely.

 

[canuckaudiog]

. . .

I think a lot of AK'ers see us talking like this and think we're all huffing paint fumes or something. :scratch2:

. . .

Haha, no, not exactly. I'm curious about how the W90s sound myself. A friend of mine has W60s and they do sound good - natural, and well rounded. He also has W70s, which I am waiting to hear. The W90s I am sure are just more of that. Will they compete with what I have? Likely not a chance, but I am sure what you describe them to be is not too far off from what they are. All the hyperbole I admit I don't think I can buy into, but it's all about what you have experienced in the past and what you're used to hearing. Everyone has a different "music memory" if you get what I mean. So, I am sure that to you, what you describe them as is indeed what they are - and because of how much you like them, I am certain they are well worth looking into.

 

[Gang-Twanger]

Haha, no, not exactly. I'm curious about how the W90s sound myself. A friend of mine has W60s and they do sound good - natural, and well rounded. He also has W70s, which I am waiting to hear. The W90s I am sure are just more of that. Will they compete with what I have? Likely not a chance, but I am sure what you describe them to be is not too far off from what they are. All the hyperbole I admit I don't think I can buy into, but it's all about what you have experienced in the past and what you're used to hearing. Everyone has a different "music memory" if you get what I mean. So, I am sure that to you, what you describe them as is indeed what they are - and because of how much you like them, I am certain they are well worth looking into.

The W90's certainly have their limits. The RSPM is WAY-deeper in the low lows in terms of dynamic impact and the ability to convey the power of a live band. But the W90 just kills in the tone & timbre dept (The Hammond B3, the Mellotron, the baritone sax, and a gazillion classic-rock overdrives and fuzz tones... The W90 really-owns that stuff). Uber-rich, never harsh or overly-forward, and yet very-open and alive. They have that "breath of life" in spades. I always appreciated hi-fi critics' use of the word "visceral" to describe the organic, natural, lifelike qualities of a particular speaker, amp, CDP, etc. because it best-characterizes the W90 sound. Honestly, it's the W90's raison d'être. Mine can sound so-right and perfect at volumes that wouldn't wake a sleeping newborn baby. But they can also shake a little plaster if need be. I would love to try them in a bigger room where I could put them farther back and turn them up more because I can tell there's a lot more there, waiting to be unleashed (especially in terms of dynamic range/transient response characteristics).

One thing they do is ISOLATE the sound to the forward direction. The earliest W90's will surely do it best. That wall of a cabinet in turn ACTS like a wall, isolating the sound to that one side (The only thing you hear when you stand behind it is the reflected sound after it's bounced off the walls and what not).

 

[StylinLP]

I wish I could hear mine with more than my tube 18 wpc just to see what they would do. Just out of curiosity. I'm sure I would loose so much liquid intimate sound but I bet it would o be more dynamic. Also, I'm still have them on the floor in a bedroom against a wall with a bookshelf in the middle. Not ideal. But I will get around to it someday. I'm moving an ca only take my wharfedale w60a with me. So the w 90s will need to wait til next year when I get back

 

[Gang-Twanger]

I wish I could hear mine with more than my tube 18 wpc just to see what they would do. Just out of curiosity. I'm sure I would loose so much liquid intimate sound but I bet it would o be more dynamic. Also, I'm still have them on the floor in a bedroom against a wall with a bookshelf in the middle. Not ideal. But I will get around to it someday. I'm moving an ca only take my wharfedale w60a with me. So the w 90s will need to wait til next year when I get back

Make sure the bookshelf doesn't extend PAST the front of the W90's. This will make a difference, as will keeping the area in front of them nice and open and spacious.

I'm only using 30wpc, and I'm lucky if I ever see more than 5 of them. I know what you mean though. The tubes make a BIG difference though. Crestwood was running something like 18 or 20wpc prior to switching to the Marantz 8b. I feel for ya' though. Those W60's (Alnico, I assume) will do better with 18wpc though. That model can be placed vertically or horizontally. Just be precise with the distancing, pitch, height. That model is a monster jazz & Beatles speaker. A bit more bloom than the W90, so '60's music tends to be it's forte, but it sounds excellent with early '70's music as well..