"Super-Ferric" Type 1 tapes?

[Taketheflame]

Hey all,

I came across this, and am rather curious about them...

https://www.nationalaudiocompany.com/product/799-studio-master-60-minute-super-chrome/

I guess they have limited Type II stock left, and then production will cease? (So no more Type II manufacturing anywhere?). But they boast of a new Type I tape to replace it, with a claimed dynamic range rivaling that of Type IV tapes...(40hz to 20Khz).

...Now, how likely is this stuff to actually perform that well, do you all think? I wonder how heads on old decks will handle it?

That kind of fidelity out of a Type I has me very interested...especially since my deck is pre-type IV compatible (and the very high cost of type IV anyway).

 

[vwestlife]

There's been quite a lot of discussion about it over on the TapeHeads.net forum. The latest word is that production is due to begin by the end of September.

 

[Bob]

for your intended use, on your machine, you'd need to follow how that tape
requires bias and equalization. the bias controls the recording parameters,
equalization decides the filters to pass the sound through, and lastly,
the MOL for the tape.

if new is all that's needed then buy as much as you can. if the specs don't
work out there are still millions of type 2s -which are the best unless you
pay for type 4 metals. type 3s vary all over the parameter spectrum.

BTW the tapehead guys are pretty good. rivals the naktalk site.

 

[Wilhem]

[QUOTEwith a claimed dynamic range rivaling that of Type IV tapes...(40hz to 20Khz).][/QUOTE]

This is frequency response, not dynamic range. No oxide manufacturer today makes pigment for the Type I class that has the coercivity required to match the SOL of a Type IV tape. Unless the ferric pigment is doped or modified with cobalt, it cannot be a "super ferric" with MOL and SOL values that match what BASF Ferro Maxima, Maxell XL-IS, TDK AD, and others provided. Refined particles can provide low noise for a Type I tape, but not enough of a reduction to match what the change to 70-microseconds can do for a Type II or a Type IV (4.5 dB). Packing density can be increased to improve MOL and lower distortion with the latest pigments; but those improvements, while welcome, would not rise to the level of what were "super ferrics." It sounds to me as though TDK's old advertising agency is involved when the claims defy the laws of physics. The new tape may be an excellent Type I, but not a "super" class Type I.

 

[Taketheflame]

Very informative and interesting Wilhem, thank you!

So basically, we have to wait until these new tapes are actually out/find out if their formula goes beyond a standard ferric pigment to determine if they really are a true "super" ferric?

Assuming they end up being more of a "standard" ferric pigment, how would you say they still might fare against a Type II or IV tape? I was under the impression that the frequency response of most Type I tapes falls around 30hz to 15 or 16khz, limiting their performance on the top end of the EQ spectrum.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out if I should wait for these to come out, or try to stock up on some Type II's instead.

 

[Wilhem]

Frequency response is dependent on the coercivity of the pigment, the surface finish of the tape, and by the width of the gap in the playback head. A response of 30 Hz to 16 kHz is not going to sound different from a response of 30 Hz to 20 kHz except to a child, who probably won't care. The audible difference between a standard ferric tape and a Type II will be in greater noise and, perhaps slightly greater distortion. A Type IV tape will also have less hiss as well as greater capacity for loud high frequency input such as electronic music. The Type IV will also be able to be recorded louder with the same amount of distortion as a standard Type I. Many of these audible differences will be noticeable on music with a wide dynamic range. Compressed popular music is typically not challenging enough to expose the differences between Type I, II, or IV tapes. Stocking up on Type II tapes, if you can find them, will also provide you with better housings because there are so few good C-0 manufacturers these days. The top brands took more care in their shells back in the days when branded Type II tapes were available.

 

[oldvinyldude]

I sure hope the guys at NAC can get their line up and running. I have viewed a few articles about them, and they are working with a trio of engineers\operators who ran these processes 30-40 years ago. It's quite a trick to get the magnetic slurry just right, to get it to adhere evenly to the mylar, to keep the thickness consistent and polish the surface evenly, so that the end product is of consistently high quality.

Also, I believe it was Wilhem who noted no Type II tapes are possible, at least not produced in US, because of environmental restrictions on the necessary compounds.

 

[Wilhem]

Type II tapes are still possible, but one has to find a source of the pigment. Economics, not environmental restrictions, prevent the manufacture of the proper pigment. The first economic hurdle is the size of the market. The number of potential customers just not justify the investment because the return on investment requires immense volumes of sales. That was true in the days of audio and video cassettes, but those days are long gone. The next hurdle is the amount of money needed to modify the ferric crystals available with cobalt in order to raise coercivity. That would certainly be less expensive than spending many millions of dollars to build the reactors for the production of chromium dioxide. Environmental restrictions are a third hurdle; but a completely sealed, robotic factory is not impossible. It's just extremely expensive. (The complete sealing would allow all solvents to be recycled and not emitted into the atmosphere where they might become carbon dioxide--that evil, evil poison that we exhale.)

Metal pigment is still used in some data tapes, and that pigment could be modified to be a Type II alternative, but the product would be still an expensive medium in a market that has moved beyond cassettes.

 

[Taketheflame]

Lots of insight once again, Wilhem. Indeed, heavy industry and manufacturing is very capital intensive, and the market for tape is so small.

Oldvinyldude - I'd guess that NAC is trying to finish selling off the rest of their Type II stock (it's NOS Type II tape put into new shells, AFAIK) before their new ferric replacements become available. In any case, I'm looking forward to trying them - but I just might pick up a brick of the Type II's while we're waiting.

 

[danj]

Buy as many Type II tapes as you can afford and let someone else buy the "super ferric" tapes. I own several of the so-called supers and they are almost but not quite as good as a low end type II.

 

[Taketheflame]

Well, I actually sent an e-mail to NAC today asking about remaining Type II stock/the upcoming super-ferrics, and heard back from Steve (the President) already!

Type II stock is down to around 10k 60 minute tapes, and 10k 90 minute tapes or so (down from about double that from earlier this year). The super-ferrics are expected to be available by the end of this month/early November.

I'm planning to be a guinea pig when the new Type I becomes available, but it sounds like now is the time to buy Type II before it's gone too.

 

[Taketheflame]

Another quick update/question - does anyone here have experience w/the NAC Super Chromes mentioned here? I want to order some, but shipping to my neck of the woods is a bit spendy (IMO, an order needs to be at least 2 bricks/20 tapes in size because of it) so I think I want to wait a month for the new Type Is to come out and buy a brick of each to compare.

In the meantime, I do have just shy of a dozen Maxell XLII 90's coming my way via eBay. Some vintages of these seem to be getting bid up to nearly the cheap end of metal tape prices...

 

[Djcoolray]

What a rip off....

You can get BASF CHROME EXTRA II......at duplication.ca.....for $11.60 ea.

And now you know the origin of their new supply straight from Germany where they have always been selling BASF cassettes. Duplication.ca......has a selection that you won’t believe.

A bunch of people falling over themselves over the razzle-dazzle advertising BS making people think they are the only supplier. When in reality, they are going to sell fast to make a big score then file for bankruptcy to stop any future litigations for false advertising.

duplication.ca

vintage cassettes

 

[Taketheflame]

$11.60/tape? By that metric, I must have got a very, very good deal on the tapes I just bought, lol. Assuming people are actually paying that much.

Pretty sure the NAC Type IIs are also from NOS BASF Chrome pancakes for less than half that as well.

 

[Djcoolray]

Some people think that the only source to BASF CHROME EXTRA II are NOS pancakes....from yesteryear !!!